Evidence for God from Science

Oh, oh -- we're getting side-tracked from topic I fear.

crochet1949 wrote:Oh, oh -- we're getting side-tracked from topic I fear.

We're not getting sidetracked. The thread is just evolving.

crochet1949 wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:If Jesus is God and he is John 20:28, Acts 20:28 then why would'nt the Holy Spirit be God also? Why leave off the Holy Spirit and separate it?

ACB,

Trying to get Jenna to understand the Trinity before arguing against it, is like trying to get you to understand evolution, before your arguing against it.

But I do understand evolution which is why noone has refuted me.Their only answer is I don't understand it,etc.You just believe what they say.

You've given no evidence to refute!

Understanding evolution --- 'evolution' refers to the development Of. So -- how did the earth 'develop' ? Or Did it 'develop' -- 'develop' would indicate that something had a starting point and 'grew' / matured in some way. So -- what Caused the starting point to exist? This is meant to be rhetorical. And what about the beginning of people / animals.

Yes that is a brief description of evolution but I'm talking about knowing about the evidence behind it and what it shows. If a person is knowledgeable about the evidence they will realize based on what I have explained about it that it only demonstrates normal variation amongst a population. This is all their evidence shows,therefore everything else they claim about evolution is assumptions and imagination. Variation amongst a population or normal reproduction amongst a population is all the development that can be had.

RickD wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Oh, oh -- we're getting side-tracked from topic I fear.

We're not getting sidetracked. The thread is just evolving.

Indeed!

Soon it will become 'understanding the fairer sex'

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Oh, oh -- we're getting side-tracked from topic I fear.

We're not getting sidetracked. The thread is just evolving.

Indeed!

Soon it will become 'understanding the fairer weaker sex'

There Nessa, fixed it for you.

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Oh, oh -- we're getting side-tracked from topic I fear.

We're not getting sidetracked. The thread is just evolving.

Indeed!

Soon it will become 'understanding the fairer weaker sex'

There Nessa, fixed it for you.

Don't let your wife see that, or you might not get any kind of sex to tonight

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Oh, oh -- we're getting side-tracked from topic I fear.

We're not getting sidetracked. The thread is just evolving.

Indeed!

Soon it will become 'understanding the fairer weaker sex'

There Nessa, fixed it for you.

Don't let your wife see that, or you might not get any kind of sex to tonight

Don't you mean give him a beating?

Kurieuo wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote: We're not getting sidetracked. The thread is just evolving.

Indeed!

Soon it will become 'understanding the fairer weaker sex'

There Nessa, fixed it for you.

Don't let your wife see that, or you might not get any kind of sex to tonight

Don't you mean give him a beating?

Wrong thread... the submissive one is over there *points*

crochet1949 wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.

• Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?

It Would mean that Jesus has both a divine and human nature. And THAT was necessary so that His shed blood Would take away our sinfulness and He Could be resurrected from the dead. Because If Jesus were simply another baby being born --he would only have a human nature-- his eventual death would simply be another death/ everyone would Still be dying in their sinfulness. BUT the Fact Is that Jesus was born To Show us the Father (because He WAS the Father, in the flesh).

And Jesus Christ Needed to ascend back up to the Father, so that the Holy Spirit Could come to mankind to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.

It is important to understand the requirements of kinsman redeemer. For such, is next to a 1:1 foreshadow of Christ in relation to us and our unpayable debt of sin to the Father.

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Oh, oh -- we're getting side-tracked from topic I fear.

We're not getting sidetracked. The thread is just evolving.

Indeed!

Soon it will become 'understanding the fairer sex'

'Understanding the fairer sex' --- now That Would be an accomplishment, indeed.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote: ACB,

Trying to get Jenna to understand the Trinity before arguing against it, is like trying to get you to understand evolution, before your arguing against it.

But I do understand evolution which is why noone has refuted me.Their only answer is I don't understand it,etc.You just believe what they say.

You've given no evidence to refute!

Understanding evolution --- 'evolution' refers to the development Of. So -- how did the earth 'develop' ? Or Did it 'develop' -- 'develop' would indicate that something had a starting point and 'grew' / matured in some way. So -- what Caused the starting point to exist? This is meant to be rhetorical. And what about the beginning of people / animals.

Yes that is a brief description of evolution but I'm talking about knowing about the evidence behind it and what it shows. If a person is knowledgeable about the evidence they will realize based on what I have explained about it that it only demonstrates normal variation amongst a population. This is all their evidence shows,therefore everything else they claim about evolution is assumptions and imagination. Variation amongst a population or normal reproduction amongst a population is all the development that can be had.

"demonstrates normal variation amongst a population.....is all the development that can be had." Yes.

Kurieuo wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.

• Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?

It Would mean that Jesus has both a divine and human nature. And THAT was necessary so that His shed blood Would take away our sinfulness and He Could be resurrected from the dead. Because If Jesus were simply another baby being born --he would only have a human nature-- his eventual death would simply be another death/ everyone would Still be dying in their sinfulness. BUT the Fact Is that Jesus was born To Show us the Father (because He WAS the Father, in the flesh).

And Jesus Christ Needed to ascend back up to the Father, so that the Holy Spirit Could come to mankind to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.

It is important to understand the requirements of kinsman redeemer. For such, is next to a 1:1 foreshadow of Christ in relation to us and our unpayable debt of sin to the Father.

Not sure I understand your comment -- "the requirements of kinsman redeemer" -- as in 'foreshadow of Christ in relation to us and our unpayable debt of sin to the Father' -- especially the 'foreshadow of Christ in relation to us'?!

crochet1949 wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.

• Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?

It Would mean that Jesus has both a divine and human nature. And THAT was necessary so that His shed blood Would take away our sinfulness and He Could be resurrected from the dead. Because If Jesus were simply another baby being born --he would only have a human nature-- his eventual death would simply be another death/ everyone would Still be dying in their sinfulness. BUT the Fact Is that Jesus was born To Show us the Father (because He WAS the Father, in the flesh).

And Jesus Christ Needed to ascend back up to the Father, so that the Holy Spirit Could come to mankind to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.

Jenna -- your response to my explanation --does it make sense? Agree? Disagree?

crochet1949 wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.

• Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?

It Would mean that Jesus has both a divine and human nature. And THAT was necessary so that His shed blood Would take away our sinfulness and He Could be resurrected from the dead. Because If Jesus were simply another baby being born --he would only have a human nature-- his eventual death would simply be another death/ everyone would Still be dying in their sinfulness. BUT the Fact Is that Jesus was born To Show us the Father (because He WAS the Father, in the flesh).

And Jesus Christ Needed to ascend back up to the Father, so that the Holy Spirit Could come to mankind to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.

It is important to understand the requirements of kinsman redeemer. For such, is next to a 1:1 foreshadow of Christ in relation to us and our unpayable debt of sin to the Father.

Not sure I understand your comment -- "the requirements of kinsman redeemer" -- as in 'foreshadow of Christ in relation to us and our unpayable debt of sin to the Father' -- especially the 'foreshadow of Christ in relation to us'?!

With Israel in Biblical times, if someone ever got into debt and couldn't repay what they owed, then they would be put into slavery to work and pay off their debt. However, someone else could come along and pay off their debt, then the person in debt could be redeemed.

The gracious act of the person who paid to redeem another from slavery was called the "kinsman redeemer." Furthermore, Israel were required to nullify all debts in the Sabbatical year (every 7th year). This was known as the Shmittah, and such a practice is associated as being something of the Lord. This also, reveals/signified (foreshadows) God's plan, or more correctly the Lord's plan, of humanities' ultimate redemption from slavery to sin. Consider Deuteronomy 15:1–2:

• At the end of seven years you will make a release. And this is the manner of the release: to release the hand of every creditor from what he lent his friend; he shall not exact from his friend or his brother, because the time of the release for the Lord has arrived.

So then, with this in mind, the first qualification of being a kinsman-redeemer is that the redeemer must be related to the person in debt. Jesus is related to humanity in virtue of His taking on full human form. The second qualification for the redeemer is that they must be free themselves and able to pay off the debt.

Applying this to ourselves and Christ, we are all sinners before God having committed wrongful acts. God on the other hand is all-righteous and as such He cannot just glimpse past wrongful acts we commit against Him (as you also understand). If God did just glimpse past our sin, it would make God semi-righteous and accepting of evil, which means God wouldn't really be righteous at all. So if we are ever to be with an all-righteous God, we have to have this "righteousness" either of ourselves or of someone else (i.e., the Redeemer).

For us to be with a holy and righteous God, we need to be somehow freed from being a slave to sin. Jesus was the only person who qualified for the task of redeeming us, according to Israel's own law. Jesus qualified firstly because he met the redeemer requirement of being associated with us by being born into our world as a human. Jesus also met the second requirement, that is, being free from sin. So if we were ever to be redeemed from sin, and so be justified before a righteous God, Jesus was qualified to redeem us.

However redemption doesn't come without a payment. In order to set us free from sin so that we could be accepted by God, a payment was required. The price of sin is death. (Genesis 2:17; Proverbs 11:19; Romans 6:23) This especially makes sense when we understand how sin kills our relationship between us and a Holy God, causing a spiritual death of sorts.

Jesus however, willingly chose to associate with us and give His life as payment, and now being raised to life can make eternal intercession between humanity (with whom Christ is associated) and the righteous glory of God for all eternity (Hebrews 7:25). He chose to do this freely and out of grace, I believe for all humanity. We are forgiven and can be set free from our debt via the Lord's righteousness paying for such, should we merely beseech Him.

So then, given all the above, the Jewish law and practices of kinsman redeemer, and the Shmittah, I see clearly point to (i.e., foreshadow) the Gospel of Christ.

crochet1949 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.

• Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?

It Would mean that Jesus has both a divine and human nature. And THAT was necessary so that His shed blood Would take away our sinfulness and He Could be resurrected from the dead. Because If Jesus were simply another baby being born --he would only have a human nature-- his eventual death would simply be another death/ everyone would Still be dying in their sinfulness. BUT the Fact Is that Jesus was born To Show us the Father (because He WAS the Father, in the flesh).

And Jesus Christ Needed to ascend back up to the Father, so that the Holy Spirit Could come to mankind to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.

Jenna -- your response to my explanation --does it make sense? Agree? Disagree?

i agree that Jesus had both a divine and a human nature and that He needed to die for us. but that doesnt really explain the question i asked, sorry.