"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
DRDS,Great video link and another good presentation by Barrie. He is truly a class actDRDS wrote:Here is a rather new presentation on the Shroud on a EWTN show last month. It features Barrie Schwortz so you know it will be good. Here is the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIUDaMatODM
Keep em coming Private eye DRDSDRDS wrote:And here is a presentation of the Shroud of Turin by one of my favorite Christian apologists L.A. Marzulli.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSZ_dhamLpU
Actually I was kind of skeptic on this but after going through this thread and bippy hard work in providing links, i am actually kind of convinced too and I think it becomes quite a challenge for someone to give an explanation without any supernatural connotations. I would be eager to see an atheist or even our resident atheist agnostics to comment on this, if they choose to. I find this hard to dismiss.Silvertusk wrote:Having watched this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BxmbIGQBX4
I am now quite convinced that this is the genuine burial cloth of Jesus.
Thanks Neoneo-x wrote:Actually I was kind of skeptic on this but after going through this thread and bippy hard work in providing links, i am actually kind of convinced too and I think it becomes quite a challenge for someone to give an explanation without any supernatural connotations. I would be eager to see an atheist or even our resident atheist agnostics to comment on this, if they choose to. I find this hard to dismiss.Silvertusk wrote:Having watched this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BxmbIGQBX4
I am now quite convinced that this is the genuine burial cloth of Jesus.
Bippy, job well done! You got me convinced.
, and your right that it is very hard to deny the preponderance of evidence that all seem to lead to one person (Christ). The technology used to create the image was beyond the capabilities of 1st century Jews , middle age Europe and even 21st century science can't replicate the image.20 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”
3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.) 10 Then the disciples went back to where they were staying.
Just finished watching this one - Amazing. Except the part when they went on a tangent and started talking about the Gnostics - that was a little rubbish. However the end bit where they reverted the 3D model back to the image on the shroud was truely outstanding.bippy123 wrote:Let me first say that I hate the history channel because of their pro secular view and all of their crazy conspiracy theories but this was a very nice documentary called the face of Jesus where Expert Ray downing using 3d and computer animated processes to try to decipher how the real face of Jesus looked like and the shroud was his blue print. When the picture is shown in the end it brought chills to me, My hairs wereactually standing up.
This is the full movie where they actually try to reconstruct the whole body and the face of Jesus , and it shows the incredible brutality of the injuries done to him on the image of the shroud
1 hour and 27 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvAJRp4C ... re=related
Yea I agree with you on the gnostic part , that's why I I'm very cautious when watching anything from the history channel, but the parts from ray downing's co outer imaging were fascinating, especially the look on his face when the image was down.Silvertusk wrote:Just finished watching this one - Amazing. Except the part when they went on a tangent and started talking about the Gnostics - that was a little rubbish. However the end bit where they reverted the 3D model back to the image on the shroud was truely outstanding.bippy123 wrote:Let me first say that I hate the history channel because of their pro secular view and all of their crazy conspiracy theories but this was a very nice documentary called the face of Jesus where Expert Ray downing using 3d and computer animated processes to try to decipher how the real face of Jesus looked like and the shroud was his blue print. When the picture is shown in the end it brought chills to me, My hairs wereactually standing up.
This is the full movie where they actually try to reconstruct the whole body and the face of Jesus , and it shows the incredible brutality of the injuries done to him on the image of the shroud
1 hour and 27 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvAJRp4C ... re=related
Silver yes the incredible suffering that Jesus went through is amazing. The passion of the Christ movie comes close but it's still even more suffering than depicted in that movie.Silvertusk wrote:Just started reading Ian Wilson - the Shroud of Turin. Only up to chapter 6 and completely blown away. The medical evidence was particularly harrowing and brought more to the fore what Jesus actually suffered for us that day. However a quick question - maybe Ian Wilson addresses this later in the book - but he seemed to think that the cloth wrapped around Jesus' head in John' Gospel and the Turin Shroud was the same thing, when I though they were separate (Sudarium of Oviedo), but complimented each other. Bippy - I wonder if you can answer this one?
John 20:1-1020 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”
3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.) 10 Then the disciples went back to where they were staying.
that explains the gospel of John and the shroud perfectly , especially from the ancient koine greek that it was written in to explain what the keywords fully meant.Sounds good Silver. In the meantime here is an excellent article on why the mandylion (or image of edessa) is in fact the shroud of turin.Silvertusk wrote:Thanks for the Link Bippy. As soon as I can I will post you the part I am referring to in WIlson's book.
Nice link DRDS, Stephen Jones really knows his stuff. Its the shroud blog I visit the most.DRDS wrote:And here is another article from that same blog that bippy123 shared with me earlier today. I hope you all enjoy it. GB
http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/20 ... hroud.html