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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:22 am
by kateliz
I'm sorry then; please forgive me!
I'm just trying to defeat
your stance on abstract thought!
RE:
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:22 am
by Ark~Magic
You were making that same old statement saying "Who created God?" well, read this:
http://doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/WhoCr ... edGod.html
And you don't even understand the trinity so don't just go on assuming it's false.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:25 am
by numeral2_5
I'm not assuming it's false, I just don't know.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:27 am
by numeral2_5
I also don't understand how a spirit can live outside time.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:29 am
by kateliz
So... do you admit defeat???
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:30 am
by numeral2_5
What do you mean?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:30 am
by Believer
numeral2_5 wrote:I also don't understand how a spirit can live outside time.
Off-topic, new thread required.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:36 am
by kateliz
I mean, do you admit defeat to animals not having abstract thought?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:38 am
by numeral2_5
No.
Re: RE:
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:42 am
by numeral2_5
numeral2_5 wrote:Ark~Magic wrote:Again there is limited evidence that these things happen like in the brain due to the fact that animals have limited consciousness. If these things were true, we'd see things like:
<li> Animals creating actual cities, towns, etc.
<li> Animals pursuing goals beyond basic survival tactics
<li> Animals worshipping God
<li> Animals creating REAL art
<li> Animals getting married
<li> Animals having birthdays
<li> Animals commemorating the dead
<li> Animals praying
<li> Animals dying for faith
<li> Animals commited to a religion
<li> Animals believing in God
<li> Animals living by moral codes
<li> Animals commiting deliberate suicide
<li> Animals pursuing understanding of creation and life
<li> Animals creating peace treaties
Need I go on? I might add some more later.
Animals can experience submission and depression but whether or not they really experience jealousy or guilt simultaneously is difficult to say because of their level of awareness/conciousness and moral understanding. And if these things exist then why don't they show more of these other kinds of emotions?
He brought up abstract thought.
I have little basis for it but I think that animals live by moral codes, agree on peace and such and make real art.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:47 am
by kateliz
Moral codes- yes, but they have been proven to be based off survival needs, not abstract concepts like right and wrong. I've seen it in documentaries on chimps.
Peace- an ideal for them, but again, based on survival needs and preferences for position. They do not agree to it just for the sake of it being "a good thing".
Art- in the eye of the beholder!
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:00 am
by numeral2_5
I think they know the difference between right and wrong, hence guilt. I'm sure however they have a different concept than us.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:03 am
by kateliz
Guilt is an emotional response to disappointing others. They don't feel guilt when no one's around to tell them they should or be disappointed in them. They only feel guilt when they disappoint others. Emotional.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:05 am
by numeral2_5
What makes you feel guilt rather it be disappointing yourself, others or god? I think apes are disappointed in themselves at times.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:10 am
by kateliz
No. Shame at poor performance, maybe, but that has to do with positioning again. Guilt at themselves only when others get disappointed in them.