Evidence for God from Science

Well, let's say blacks were still considered property rather than persons. Would you be for people simply being taught the right information about blacks being just as human as whites, without any law restrictions on whether a white wants a black as a slave?

Afterall, shouldn't it be more about changing people's minds, and isn't this really how Jesus would have approached the people considered persons?

Kurieuo.

PS. I'm all for your idea about having classes. I think it would reduce abortions significantly! Sadly, teens in most places generally don't even have to inform their parents.

Hi, did everyone see this? There is not much chance of this being successful, sine 32 years have elapsed. In the original case, Jane Roe claimed she was raped, now she has admitted that she was not, and is attempting to overturn the ruling. Two lower courts have already rejected her case.

"On January 18, the U.S. Supreme Court will begin a process that could overturn Roe v. Wade! Because you have stood with the Center for Reclaiming America on pro-life issues, I wanted to alert you to this news. On January 18, Norma McCorvey (the original "Jane Roe" of Roe v. Wade) will file a legal appeal with the Supreme Court to have Roe v. Wade reversed. I will be in Washington, D.C., on that day to stand with our friends at The Justice Foundation in support of this case. The Justice Foundation has invested thousands upon thousands of hours in this case. They have gathered an enormous body of evidence to support Norma's case.."

Well if the class was successful then people would treat the blacks as people and not property, If they still continued to treat blacks as property then 1.) class needs improvement and if that still fails then 2.) you have some evil people.

Once you reach number 2.) then i would agree to some strict measures as I'm all for crushing Satan.

Then I see we are in general agreement that there is a place for 1) education, and 2) measures to restrict evil being carried out (especially against other persons) for those who would still persist.

Kurieuo.

colors, I meant what is your specific stance on abortion. Everyone is being kinda wishy washy on it. Some say:

"Life begins at conception"
"Life might begin a little after conception"
"We may never know"

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's what I see. I'm kinda tired of being considered the stupid one who just doesn't know any better, and I think this thread has run it's course. If you want to start a new one I'll address it there. Thanks Kurieuo for the link. I'll check it out tomorrow!

In the meantime, I'd like to ask that you guys pray. By praying, I mean ask God for guidance. I've accepted the possibility that I might be wrong, and I've prayed for God to put me on the right path if I am. God will reveal his truth in time, so keep at it! Humble yourself, and surrender to his will...whatever it may be.

i gave you my stance along with some bible passages and other info. that confirmed those beliefs for me. i believe that a human has a soul at conception and that this soul is created from the melding of the child's parents' souls. so, i think abortion is wrong. however, i do not feel i have the right to stop someone from having an abortion (why? because carrying and giving birth to a child change a person's physical and mental status forever, and keeping that child can alter a person's financial status permanently); i think abortions are between the person carrying out the abortion, the women having it, and God.

i think that education against abortion and other available options is the best way to go.

as for you asking God for guidance, it's the best way to go! i hope you can make peace with this issue.

I have given my stance. I don't care if it has a soul or not. If it is biologically alive, we have no right to terminate it unless it is necessary to save the mother's life,

colors wrote: i do not feel i have the right to stop someone from having an abortion (why? because carrying and giving birth to a child change a person's physical and mental status forever, and keeping that child can alter a person's financial status permanently); i think abortions are between the person carrying out the abortion, the women having it, and God.

Please read the following:
<blockquote>Warren, Michigan, November 4, 1999 -- A baby's body was found in a dumpster outside a Roman Catholic church on Wednesday. Police in this Detroit suburb were looking for the infant's parents.

The baby's cause of death...</blockquote>Dumpster babies are perhaps more common than people think. Now, would you have any right to stop someone from dumping their baby because such can change their own well-being, or impact upon their financial status?

Or let's give another scenario. You see someone being bullied at work both physically and mentally. Does that mean you have no right to stop the victimised person from killing all involved if you found out that was their intention?

Now I don't see that one needs a right to protect another person, especially when the person involved is as innocent as a baby. Rather it is the moral duty of anyone who is human to protect the innocent. Protecting the innocent can be accomplished in many ways—by education and legislation, or even war (as was the case with America's civil war regarding slavery). Now with abortion, I believe war isn't the best alternative, not because the unborn don't deserve protecting, but because I don't believe success would be found down such a route. The pro-life position has very strong logical foundations, so education and trying to impact upon legislation would be the way to go.

Kurieuo.

About war, I can't say I approve of its liberal use, but if somebody were to blow up abortion facilities in which there are no people at the time, I wouldn't cry about it.

K,

i know, still, there's still the matter of the baby being inside another person that somehow changes the entire matter--makes it different from those instances you mentioned.

but i still think it's wrong and that we should fight it. just like one of the methods to fight it that you mentioned, i think education is an effective tool against abortion.

vvart wrote:If each person can know what is right and wrong provided the right information then shouldn't we perhaps have a law that makes all who wish to have an abortion take a class about it. This class would provide them information to make the right decision as you mentioned. I'm just not fully convinced I wanna punish people for having done something they might not even be informed about, when as you mentioned they might change their mind given the right info.

I'm more about changing people's minds about something rather then forcing and then punishing. This is how Jesus approached people as well.

That is what many post abortive women and men are trying to get the prochoicers to see. The abortion industry is opposing every bit of regulation that will help inform women because it'll hit them where it always hurts any big business -- the bank book.

The abortion industry is largely unregulated. A vets office has more hoops to go though than an abortion center and pets have more protection than the aborting woman or the unborn.

Anyway.... Every woman who was thinking of having an abortion should be shown accurate pictures or videos especially of those showing fetuses the age of hers (ie; child development), allowed to hear the heart beat, and shown a color 3D or 4D sonogram of her own baby before putting down a penny. She should also told (preferably shown) EXACTLY what was going to happen to the fetus: which is, depending upon the size, 1. torn into pieces by being sucked into a tube. A nurse will have to piece it back together to ensure both arms, legs, head, inner organs etc are present to ensure everything is there, or 2. Extremities grasped with forceps and twisted off one at a time, the head crushed to allow removal Again a nurse has to verify no body parts remain inside by playing jigsaw puzzle, or 3a. a portion of the amniotic fluid is replaced with a saline solution which the fetus inhales and which poisons and burns both inside and out taking about an hour to kill, or 3b the fetus is pulled out by the legs until the abortionist can hook his index and ring fingers over each shoulder and using his middle finger to hold the head/neck stretched and keep the cervix tissue out of the way, inserts a pair of scissors into the base of the skull, opens them and then uses a vacuum to evacuate the skull contents.

She should also be told of the dangers. Folks, this is done blind!!! He can't see what he is doing except by watching the sonogram. It is not uncommon for the woman to have her uterus punctured, pulled out, or even her bowels pulled out. In an out patient clinic no less. There are other dangers too, such as deadly septicemia. Those are the most common and appalling.

Yes, I think if women (and men) were educated about the TRUTH the demand for abortion would drop significantly.

I believe Abortion is basically Murder. Of course their may be medical reasons.
Jer 1:5 Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I consecrated you, and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.
This scripture tells us that God knew us before we were conceived. He had a plan for us from then.

I would say yes and I think this article does a good job explaining why.

https://endabortionnow.com/abortion-is- ... ng-humans/

Jill, welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing! I totally agree, abortion IS murder!

I see your information page shows you are not a Christian, so I am curious as to your faith beliefs - and are they what drives you to be against abortion?

Philip, Oh I didn't realize that I had not set that in my profile. I am still new to all things internet. My grandbabies just got me set up on the ipad.

I am a Christian and attend a baptist church. I have been following the work of endabortionnow.com for a while and wanted to share their article so that more people could read it.