Evidence for God from Science

I agree. Guess what else - a study done in my country (I've mentioned it to Fearless but I couldn't find a link) showed that cca. 60-70% of abortions were performed by married women, many of which already had two to three children. At the same time, the rate of abortions among teens and young women was surprisingly low. This gives me a shred of optimism, because our generation is proving to be more responsible sexually, regardless of stereotypes about "teens that lack sexual education".

either your country has a condom shortage, or men there just don't like them

Reactionary wrote:I agree. Guess what else - a study done in my country (I've mentioned it to Fearless but I couldn't find a link) showed that cca. 60-70% of abortions were performed by married women, many of which already had two to three children. At the same time, the rate of abortions among teens and young women was surprisingly low. This gives me a shred of optimism, because our generation is proving to be more responsible sexually, regardless of stereotypes about "teens that lack sexual education".

People that have had kids are more inclined to abort than people who haven't, yay!

Proinsias wrote:People that have had kids are more inclined to abort than people who haven't, yay!

Don't you find that unusual, and/or disturbing? What kind of parent would decide to give birth to, for instance, the first two children, while the further ones are considered "surplus to requirements" and, therefore, sentenced to death? What kind of law allows such people to murder their children out of sheer convenience, with no explanation necessary? On the other hand, when a mother ditches her newly born baby into a dumpster, everyone pretends to be disgusted, while nobody cares about the fact that millions of unborn humans are being slaughtered every year.

Meanwhile, we live in a time period when the buzzword is "human rights", everyone, including the people who were considered sick until a few decades ago are fighting for their "rights", while you can't even bring up the topic of the right to live - which is the most basic human right - without being considered "backward", "indoctrinated" or "right-wing" by the very people who call themselves liberal, tolerant and "advanced". I can only quote a saying:

"Everyone who supported slavery was free.
Everyone who has supported abortion was born."

"Everyone who supported slavery was free.
Everyone who has supported abortion was born."

Excellent quote

I would just like to add that the pro abort crowd is using the same argument that the pro slavers held, that the black man was not genetically superior as the white man, that he was lower than man, a brute, a monster, a descendant of apes, not completely human. That is the same ****ty argument now being used for abortions, that those who are conceived are not human, they are not sentient, together with every other piece of horse crap reason, one can find to support abortions.

The problem is not abortion, the problem is how life is decided. The problem is not the act alone but on the principle with which it is being promoted, that in itself goes direct against any human right you could think of. If that baby who you wanted to abort somehow survives and learns about it, how do you think he will respond to this, and how it will affect him morally, psychologically. That is a big question? but that is the advantage of it, isn't it? kill it before it can ask any questions, before we can realize that what we killed was human life, before a guilt can be traced on our conscience, kill it before that. If that baby could talk in there, if he could actually shout and tell you what the **** you're doing, only then and then will someone realize.

I get baffled when people say, oh it is not human, WTH, it ain't an animal, if he ain't human, what is he. Every offspring is what its parents are, man produces man, chicken produces chicken, dogs beget dogs, what do you think a human offspring is in the womb? not human? that is the dumbest thing to say.

I would also add, pro-abortionists also often resort to setting up straw men, by affiliating the abortion issue with religion, Christianity in particular. So basically, their stream of thought goes something like:

Pro-lifers tend to be Christians. Furthermore, the Catholic Church opposes abortion.
I'm an atheist who viciously opposes Christianity and the Catholic Church.
Therefore, I must be pro-abortion.

I saw a poll recently, which didn't ask: "What are your views on the abortion issue?" Instead, it asked: "Do you agree with the Church's position that abortion should be illegal?" You can smell a straw man from a mile away. Of course, an Internet atheist gang gathered immediately, with a standard burst against Christianity and religion in general.

Another interesting fact is that pro-abortion atheists, who also tend to be self-proclaimed liberals or leftists, accuse us of being brainwashed, while it seems like they are the ones who change their opinions with a tide. For instance, homosexuals were unwanted in Communist regimes. They would be persecuted, often caught on the street by the police, and cruelly beaten. Nowadays, the modern "leftists", many of whom are descendants of those very people, seem to be obsessed with "LGBT rights". Why? Because they don't actually care about anyone's rights, they just use the opportunity to undermine Christian morals. Sadly, too few people have realized that.

Reactionary wrote: seem to be obsessed with "LGBT rights". Why? Because they don't actually care about anyone's rights, they just use the opportunity to undermine Christian morals. Sadly, too few people have realized that.

What rights are LGBT Fighting for? Freedom? Suffrage? Free Speech?

Im pretty sure they have every right we have and plus some bonus rights we do not have (hate laws).

Marriage is not a right, It is a privaliage and union under and from god and should be respected as such. There is absolutly no reason gays cannot get civil unions like atheist do. Civil union has every sigle right as marriage. This LGBT stuff is, pardon my language, a bunch of crap. The only reason they want to marry is to shove it in the face of "christian bigots" who attempt to defend their religon.

Murray wrote:

Reactionary wrote: seem to be obsessed with "LGBT rights". Why? Because they don't actually care about anyone's rights, they just use the opportunity to undermine Christian morals. Sadly, too few people have realized that.

What rights are LGBT Fighting for? Freedom? Suffrage? Free Speech?

Im pretty sure they have every right we have and plus some bonus rights we do not have (hate laws).

Marriage is not a right, It is a privaliage and union under and from god and should be respected as such. There is absolutly no reason gays cannot get civil unions like atheist do. Civil union has every sigle right as marriage. This LGBT stuff is, pardon my language, a bunch of crap. The only reason they want to marry is to shove it in the face of "christian bigots" who attempt to defend their religon.

I think what you're saying is: "Give them civil union. Give them legal marriage. Just don't give Christian marriage."

SnowDrops wrote:

Murray wrote:

Reactionary wrote: seem to be obsessed with "LGBT rights". Why? Because they don't actually care about anyone's rights, they just use the opportunity to undermine Christian morals. Sadly, too few people have realized that.

What rights are LGBT Fighting for? Freedom? Suffrage? Free Speech?

Im pretty sure they have every right we have and plus some bonus rights we do not have (hate laws).

Marriage is not a right, It is a privaliage and union under and from god and should be respected as such. There is absolutly no reason gays cannot get civil unions like atheist do. Civil union has every sigle right as marriage. This LGBT stuff is, pardon my language, a bunch of crap. The only reason they want to marry is to shove it in the face of "christian bigots" who attempt to defend their religon.

I think what you're saying is: "Give them civil union. Give them legal marriage. Just don't give Christian marriage."

That is exactly what I'm saying

Most women who receive an abortion do it with-in the first month of pregnancy right when they find out. So the video is pretty inaccurate unless the woman is receiving an abortion only because it could endanger her life. Late term abortions hardly ever happen. And only happen in an absolute emergency.

And in the first month of pregnancy, she would only have to take a pill and it will leave her body. Then she would have to have a doctor check up to make sure everything is cleared out.

... I personally would never get an abortion, but I feel it is a highly personal thing between a woman and her doctor.

And do you really think our government could handle the burden of 1.3 million unwanted children a year? Let's just consider for a second that the fostercare system... adoption... they are currently very inadequate and dangerous for children.

And not to mention the price it costs to have a baby. Not just raising it, but while you are pregnant. Until this nation has a free healthcare system, I would never consider putting poor, destitute women through that kind of ordeal.

I know this may sound crazy, but giving birth is more dangerous than getting an abortion. But using a condom is even safer and unless you have a rare allergy to latex. There is also a variety of birth control out there if only more women were educated on this stuff and had easier access, we could be preventing abortions left and right!

Seriously, sex ed in school. Plain facts about how it is you get pregnant and how to prevent it! Abstinence only doesn't work for everyone. It is like saying in a diver's ed class, if you don't want to get in a car crash, don't drive.

I am all for creating a less and maybe even close to eliminated abortion world, but I feel there needs to be steps taken in these other areas first. Adoption really needs to go up. Just ask yourself, would you be willing to adopt? Right now? How about 3 kids? Teenagers? Even one teenager? How about you don't have your own kids and just adopt? If you aren't willing to do that, you can't expect other people to.

I am not going to have any natural born children (hopefully) and do my part by adopting. I suppose it is a nice goal, but I am young yet... I hope I don't ever feel the need to change my mind on giving birth to my own. I feel that adopting would be a wonderful thing to do when I am ready for children.

Well, do you agree abortion is murder? Why or why not?

SnowDrops wrote:Well, do you agree abortion is murder? Why or why not?

Are periods murder? Is ejaculation murder?

Second trimester I would say yes unless it was to save the mother. I am against abortion... but I understand why it is currently a necessary evil.

Too many people want to give birth rather than adopt.

I am sure you wouldn't agree that using pesticides is murder. But I feel that it is.

Jonouchi Katsuya wrote:

SnowDrops wrote:Well, do you agree abortion is murder? Why or why not?

Are periods murder? Is ejaculation murder?

Second trimester I would say yes unless it was to save the mother. I am against abortion... but I understand why it is currently a necessary evil.

Too many people want to give birth rather than adopt.

I am sure you wouldn't agree that using pesticides is murder. But I feel that it is.

Well, it comes down to who do you think is human (or has a valuable life / soul?) and who is not. I would say a fetus is human, therefore killing a fetus is the same as killing any other person. Therefore the same conditions apply as to whether it is murder or not.
When does it become human? Well, contrary to many people on this forum, I would say not from the moment of conception, but rather I would accept the explanation on this site: From the moment the heart starts beating (according to Scripture: blood is life). That still happens at only 4 weeks after conception though, so nearly all abortions happen after that.
Why would you say it is a necessary evil?

sperm alone is not human life, it is a cell with human dna, im sure you know this. So no, it is not human life.

A fertalized egg is the beginning state of a human life that is why it is murder, you are destroying it's right to live.

A spem cell isn't on route to devolping into a human life while an embryo is, which is where the difference lies. An abortion terminates a process that will result in a human being which is why I think it is wrong while ejaculation isn't.

As for calling it murder, I wouldn't go that far. I think it is wrong and is terminating a potential human life but it shouldn't be treated with as much severity as the killing of a born human being.

Seraph wrote:A spem cell isn't on route to devolping into a human life while an embryo is, which is where the difference lies. An abortion terminates a process that will result in a human being which is why I think it is wrong while ejaculation isn't.

As for calling it murder, I wouldn't go that far. I think it is wrong and is terminating a potential human life but it shouldn't be treated with as much severity as the killing of a born human being.

Do you put the border between potential life and actual life at birth? I agree with your view as to abortion before a baby (well, essentially still a baby) actually becomes a person, but do you think that applies through all of abortion?