Evidence for God from Science

zoegirl wrote:Short answer and then you can ask questions for elaboration.

Microevolution is the observed minute changes in populations over generation. Natural selection can be one mechanism for this microevolution. We see a form of selection in crops and domesticated animals, where humans have deliberatley selected animals with certain physical characteristics we wnat. (more milk, more beef, more fur, less fur, short nose, long nose, fast, larger grains....etc) Most of what we observe in microevolution is simply a shift in natural gene frequencies of genes already existing in the popualtions. Microevolution is fully observable and testable.

Macroevolution, however, is the idea that these changes in microevoultion can, over time, produce large scale changes. The idea that humans evolved from a common ancerstor with apes and chimps, or that birds and mammals evolved from reptiles. Most of the evidence here is much like crime scence evidence, since it occurred in the past.

Where there are a lot of questions is whether the one (microevolution) has enough power in the variations brought about by mutations and other genetics changes to produce the shifts that are presented in macroevolutionary history.

For other info http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/biblevol.html

jenwat3 wrote:Good point. I think dinosaurs were here before man, but everything was destroyed when Satan tried to overthrow God and was thrown to earth. Then God started over, this time creating man.

ScienceAndFaith wrote:I have a different take on this. I would answer "yes" (in a sense) because the very fact that we can ask the question and have this discussion means that we have consciousness. I believe it's safe to assume that we are not wooden 2x4s responding to each other. Wooden 2x4s will never one day ask the question, "Hmmmm. I wonder if there is a big Tree in the sky?" The only source of consciousness can be a Superconsciousness (which I would refer to as God). So it just seems rather silly to conclude that there is no Source for the human mind while observing that conscious minds are debating whether or not a source for consciousness exists. I'm patiently waiting for evolutionary biologists to find a naturalistic source of consciousness. At present this appears to be one of the atheist's many gaps.

But beyond that, if we believe that the Source is the God of the bible, then we have the bible to give us some insights. As I read it, the bible tells us that faith ends in sight. So until that day that we stand face-to-face with God we will not be able to "prove" that he exists. My conversion from atheism to Christianity was based on the weight of the evidence. In my younger days my immature understanding of the nature of God gave the weight of the evidence to the atheist perspective, and I'm still an atheist to that "god". But when I came to understand God the way the bible actually portrays him that obstacle was removed. The weight of the evidence shifted to the Christian perspective and has continued to expand in that direction.

Jad wrote:

zoegirl wrote:Short answer and then you can ask questions for elaboration.

Microevolution is the observed minute changes in populations over generation. Natural selection can be one mechanism for this microevolution. We see a form of selection in crops and domesticated animals, where humans have deliberatley selected animals with certain physical characteristics we wnat. (more milk, more beef, more fur, less fur, short nose, long nose, fast, larger grains....etc) Most of what we observe in microevolution is simply a shift in natural gene frequencies of genes already existing in the popualtions. Microevolution is fully observable and testable.

Macroevolution, however, is the idea that these changes in microevoultion can, over time, produce large scale changes. The idea that humans evolved from a common ancerstor with apes and chimps, or that birds and mammals evolved from reptiles. Most of the evidence here is much like crime scence evidence, since it occurred in the past.

Where there are a lot of questions is whether the one (microevolution) has enough power in the variations brought about by mutations and other genetics changes to produce the shifts that are presented in macroevolutionary history.

For other info http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/biblevol.html

Awesome job zoegirl, couldn't have said it better myself.

Another interesting thought is the undeniable evidence that everything is running down, becoming more chaotic, infected with disease etc. Take an apple for example. The nutrients and all the goodness of a single apple today has far less goodness in it compared to an apple 100 years ago. Pollution and whatnot also accelerate this running down sin infested world but it is amazing why someone would even consider something like Utopia or simply thinking we are getting better and better, evolving into a greater species and world etc. Imagine the Nutrients inside an apple in the garden of Eden! Well all accept the fruit Eve ate lol.

It is no surprise to me why people lived to 900+ years back then. God's creation seems not just good, as Genesis records, but too good for our own good. God had to shorten our years on earth because we could not handle such awesome goodness for long periods of time. It was so good it tempted us away from God (other idols). Even today, with all the destruction and evil going on, we still get tempted to worship created things over the creator himself. How wonderful a thought concerning God's incredibly good creation. Praise God!
Is it possibly because of man's messing with God's creations? Hormones and pesticides?

jenwat3 wrote:Good point. I think dinosaurs were here before man, but everything was destroyed when Satan tried to overthrow God and was thrown to earth. Then God started over, this time creating man.

Hehe we could discuss this section alone for hours on end as there are so many interpretations concerning how God actually did it.

A really really good debate I heard with an atheist and a Christian debating the plausibility of God's existence considering all the pain and suffering in the world discusses these issues we are talking about rather well I must say. The ones concerning death and suffering before Adam and whatnot. Everyone click on the link below and have a listen if you want to. I've listened to it 3 times now, even though it goes for 2 hours. It really is that compelling; or perhaps it took me three goes to finally understand what was being said lol...

http://media.libsyn.com/media/infidelgu ... s_Wood.mp3

Its from 'the debate hour' show which is run by the infamous atheist InfidelGuy. Its not a formal debate but just two guys chatting over the phone. One is an atheist who used to be a Christian and the other is a Christian who used to be an atheist. Enjoy! And please come back and leave some feedback on what you think about it, positive or negative.

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jenwat3 wrote:

Another interesting thought is the undeniable evidence that everything is running down, becoming more chaotic, infected with disease etc. Take an apple for example. The nutrients and all the goodness of a single apple today has far less goodness in it compared to an apple 100 years ago. Pollution and whatnot also accelerate this running down sin infested world but it is amazing why someone would even consider something like Utopia or simply thinking we are getting better and better, evolving into a greater species and world etc. Imagine the Nutrients inside an apple in the garden of Eden! Well all accept the fruit Eve ate lol.

It is no surprise to me why people lived to 900+ years back then. God's creation seems not just good, as Genesis records, but too good for our own good. God had to shorten our years on earth because we could not handle such awesome goodness for long periods of time. It was so good it tempted us away from God (other idols). Even today, with all the destruction and evil going on, we still get tempted to worship created things over the creator himself. How wonderful a thought concerning God's incredibly good creation. Praise God!

Is it possibly because of man's messing with God's creations? Hormones and pesticides?

jenwat3 wrote:still haven't figured out how to post correctly... I have a point in the middle of the above post.

to say

jenwat3 wrote: for example.

That's the way I do it anyway. The most important point I can make though is to use the 'Preview' function before posting any reply. It will pick up any wrong code by showing you exactly what its going to look like when you finally submit the post. You should be able to work out from there the errors in the code and fix them up before actually submitting the post. It's also good for checking your spelling and grammer... sorry grammar.

jenwat3 wrote:Thanks for the tips, Zoe and Jad. Think I'll stick with the post replies for now though.