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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:34 pm
by AttentionKMartShoppers
Nah...it's too easy to say what you what online, I'll try looking for books on it (college library might have at least one). I want an actual scientist saying it, like the guy on the site I've pasted above somewhere (concerning magnets). Might be hard as evolutionists will have to believe it's fluctuating, or the earth would have vaporized as early as 100,000 years ago due to the heat....so I want a guy who believes it fluctuates because there's evidence...not because it MUST fluctuate for him to be right.

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:40 pm
by August
The information I provide is almost always from peer-reviewed scientific journals etc. I agree, I don't like to believe any crackpot on the net.

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:05 pm
by AttentionKMartShoppers
So, which is the popular big bang theory nowadays? Is it the all matter in a tiny sphere the size if this "." just exploded, or is it this newer term I've heard, quantum fluctuation (which, according to someone who likes this stuff, would only randomly generate a few protons and electrons....but never actual atoms, or at least at an insanely low rate). Also, is there any silly idea of how order turned into chaos which turned into order and is becoming orderly still, even though the 2nd law of *you guessed it* thermodynams was clearly in effect, along with gravity? I hope this isn't the old earth Christian's big bang....in which case Mastermind will say "God did it." :D

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:30 pm
by Kurieuo
Attention, how do you think God brought the universe into being? What would we see if we could observe the beginning?

The "big bang" theory isn't really an explosion, but rather an expansion from a singularity, an expansion that appears to be controlled and finely tuned. The standard theory is that our universe sprang into existence as singularity around 13.7 billion years ago. Where did the singularity come from? We don't know (at least we can't know by observing). In general, the "big bang" says nothing about how the universe got here. Some secular scientists try to says the laws we are familiar with broke down at the Planck, and so try to provide an explanation from quantum mechanics. Yet, even QM goes by certain laws, and Ross convincingly argues against this loophole in his book The Creator and the Cosmos. Others attempt to explain how something can come from nothing, but I don't think such scientists would make very good philosophers to assume something so absurd. ;)

The fact we have a beginning, the fact laws and variables within our universe are so finely tuned, the fact Earth appears designed for life, the fact that life appears to have begun on Earth as soon as it could support it, and many other factors, all have a cumulative effect of pointing to a Designer. I believe God did do it, but it's not on an absense of evidence, but rather reading the obvious into lots of positive evidence.

Kurieuo.

PS. There's a website I just came across that deals with the "big bang," and one I'd recommend: http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:43 pm
by AttentionKMartShoppers
I think Genesis 1 says it...God said it, then it happenned. Don't know what He did in verse 1 though. It just says He created (ex nihilo). Don't ask me to make a story of what we'd see, my imagination is finite, left to thinking about exotic computer games I could make it I had a clue, and what kind of conversations I could have with people if I had friends :P .

Also, I'd like to say dark matter is made up to explain some problems that should be occuring at the current mass of the universe...and dark energy is made up to explain why the universe is expanding and the rate is accelerating. (Not inventing, I read it....though in which book....I think it's Tornado in a Junkyard or Evolution of a Creationist). (Though I'm sure there's gonna be a link proving dark matter exists (so called because it can't be detected)).

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:03 pm
by Kurieuo
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:I think Genesis 1 says it...God said it, then it happenned. Don't know what He did in verse 1 though. It just says He created (ex nihilo).
So are you saying that you base your entire creation account only on Genesis? I base my interpretation on many other passages in Scripture. For example, in Isaiah 45:12 it says, "12 It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts."

To quote an article, Big Bang - The Bible Taught It First! ;):
  • The characteristic of the universe stated more frequently than any other in the Bible is its being “stretched out.” Five different Bible authors pen such a statement in eleven different verses: Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15; and Zechariah 12:1. Job 37:18 appears to be a twelfth verse. However, the word used for “heavens” or “skies” is shehaqîm which refers to the clouds of fine particles (of water or dust) that are located in Earth's atmosphere,8 not the shamayim, the heavens of the astronomical universe.9 Three of the eleven verses, Job 9:8; Isaiah 44:24; and 45:12 make the point that God alone was responsible for the cosmic stretching.
Kurieuo.

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:09 pm
by AttentionKMartShoppers
I'm trying to go to sleep, I was trying to be quick. I don't know how to search for other verses that refer to Genesis and creation....I know how to search for verses with certain words in them, but that's not always helpful to me.