Evidence for God from Science

Lufia wrote:"have written about on this forum"

Is it here? In 'Speaking in tongues' ? I haven't read all the pages

I know I wrote about it somewhere during the past two years but what thread - I do not recall. As for praying loud or quietly - that depends how close by my wife is
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B. W. wrote:

Lufia wrote:"have written about on this forum"

Is it here? In 'Speaking in tongues' ? I haven't read all the pages

I know I wrote about it somewhere during the past two years but what thread - I do not recall. As for praying loud or quietly - that depends how close by my wife is
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It doesn't matter how close or far away my wife is when I pray. She knows all the dirt on me anyways.

Sometimes not knowing what to pray is frustrating. Asking the HS what to pray is releiving. I know that God gives spiritual gifts to all of us. It was apparent during the times of the early church. I think that the true speaking in tounges will be like when Jesus comes back and addresses the people here on Earth, that everyone hears Him in their own language. And understands Him.

obsolete wrote:...It doesn't matter how close or far away my wife is when I pray. She knows all the dirt on me anyways.

Sometimes not knowing what to pray is frustrating. Asking the HS what to pray is releiving. I know that God gives spiritual gifts to all of us. It was apparent during the times of the early church. I think that the true speaking in tounges will be like when Jesus comes back and addresses the people here on Earth, that everyone hears Him in their own language. And understands Him.

I would agree!
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Silvertusk wrote:Well i have finished reading Charismatic Choas. An absolute brilliant book. I reccommend that everyone read it. I am now quite convinced that "tongues" are the languages of man and do not exist today and what people do utter are simply gibberish. Plus apart from Miracles (healings etc..) that God himself wants to do, there are no more big style "Prophets" and there has not been since the Aspostlic age. There is no more further revelations from God apart from what is in the Bible itself.

Jesus warns us against false prophets and messiahs who will show signs and wonders. How are we to guard against these - by understanding that there are no more prophets since the close of the New Testament, and will no longer be until the coming of Christ.

These so called revivals of the Holy Spirit are to be looked at with skeptism and all "spirits" need to be tested. I believe genuine miracles come from God himself and he may present them as answer to prayer but not through one "spiritual healer".

I believe the Holy Spirit dwells within us at the moment of belief and not subsequent to that. I believe the evidence of the Holy Spirit is shown not through "gifts" but through the fruits of the spirit and especially by showing love to your fellow man as that is the greatest proof that the Holy Spirit lives within you.

I beleive that Charismatic worship in pursuit of these gifts is dangerous and can lead to Christians believing they are second class and disillusioned and it is certainly not edifying the church.

I am so glad I have got all that off my chest and I apologise to anyone that I may have offended.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

Hey, I just went back through this post and noticed you finished CC, and I just wanted to register my hardly approval again with it and with your post here. I know this is a very emotional issue with many people, but that's precisely part of the problem. Doctrine is not to be submitted to what we want it to say (I wish I could heal people because of my faith!), but rather, what we believe is to be submitted to Scripture. Emotions play no part, and when they do, you get experiential Christianity.

Anyway, good deal, and I'm glad you liked the book.

God bless

I have that book too... I would also recommend it as well.

Does anyone have a genuine Acts experience with tongues?

You can't get much more conservative than the late Adrian Rogers. He spoke once of a time (I don't remember if it was himself or a friend) that he had finished preaching and went to the last pew, where he knelt to pray. He was praying out loud not really paying much mind to anyone around him. A man in the pew did not speak any English but heard him praying in his own native language.

Another pastor friend of mine, who preaches all over the world told me another. He and a non-believing acquantence were walking through his church. He apparently had been talking with and witnessing to the man for a while. They walked by a room where some people were praying together. The man stopped the pastor and asked him why they were using that language? He asked what he meant. The man was a linquist and was educated in an obscure language, and when he walked by the room he heard them praying in this tongue.
The pastor confirmed that no one in that room was familiar with that language.

My question with tongues is are we seeking the gift or the giver.

Very few consider the audience in the Pentecost event. Many heard the miracle that day, but only 3,000 believed. This was a time when Jerusalem would have been packed with Jews of the dispersion. Those were Jews who were scattered because of past exiles, but always came back to Jerusalem for Holy days. Like does a great job setting up the scence. They had a heart of anticipation, much unlike the Jews who lived permanently in Jerusalem. Those who lived in Jerusalem would have only heard them in Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek, nothing unusual for sure. Or they may have heard babbling, since they accused the men of being drunk. But there were only two kinds of listeners their that day. Converts and scoffers. Since these Jews were from all over the region, these converts would be returning to their homes and providing a great setting for the rapid spread of the church, as Paul would be called soon. Tongues is a manifestation of God. And God continues to manifest himself today. It may be through you, sharing your faith, or kindness. No one comes to Christ unless God has already been working on them.

I love B.W.'s post, but I believe the stories are a testament to the power of prayer, not the gift of speaking in tongues. Paul says that when we are compelled to pray but don't know what to say that our heart will groan for us in words we don't understand. Perhaps on those occasions we can't help but put some kind of voice to those groanings, but I don't really consider that speaking in tongues as referred to in the Bible. In fact, Acts Ch 8 seems to say that "miraculous" gifts were non transferrable beyond the original receivers.

jlay,

Could I get a source on that story about Rogers? Frankly, I'm skeptical, and I'd like to see it for myself so I can look at the details.

Thanks!

I'm a huge Roger's fan. I believe I heard him speak on this in his "Kingdom Authority" bible study.

He has some healing testimonies that will knock your socks off as well.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qs2dFm ... os#PPP1,M1

Good commentary on the SBC position and battle within.

jlay,

Thanks. I need a source clarification from you, as you mentioned two. The "Kingdom Authority" book is titled The incredible power of kingdom authority (Holman, '02). Is the story you mentioned in that book or in the one you referenced, Believe in Miracles but Trust in Jesus (CrossWay, '97)? We have both in our library, but can you be a bit more specific?

Thanks again.

It seems I remember it from the Kingdom Authority video bible study. Although it has been about 4 years ago.

I thought you might enjoy the book. The link has an excerpt. I wouldn't be surprised if its mentioned in the book as well. I have listened to so many of his sermons over the year, it's hard to recall exactly.

Roger's family has been vocal about the SBC trying to mute the speaking in tongues issue.

I'll scan both and see if I can find the story, jlay. But please don't be offended in my saying that until then, I hold the whole thing with the highest degree of skepticism and certainly put no stock in it as something that needs to be understood from a biblical point of view. The reason for that is simply that, if I don't have a reference, I can't examine the details of the story itself.

I don't doubt that you are telling the truth that he told a story along those lines. And perhaps he told the story just as you told it. But hopefully I can find it so I can look at the details, which, in a case like this, make all the difference in the world.

I'll let you know when I get through the books.

Thanks for the recommendations.

I am curious what would give you hesitation in this account.

Like I said, I recall the story being told in the video series of the Kingdom Authority bible study.

jlay wrote:I am curious what would give you hesitation in this account.

Like I said, I recall the story being told in the video series of the Kingdom Authority bible study.

I'm hesitant because I don't believe people speak in tongues anymore. I'll tell you now that this story, even if it is exactly what you said, wouldn't convince me of that, regardless. (That's a scriptural, not experiential, debate.) At the same time, I've heard Rogers speak many times and am interested in hearing his own retelling of the story to see how he handles the details.