Evidence for God from Science

Dom, have a good day...

God bless!!!

zacchaeus wrote:I am personally against it... I have no right to deface or destruct a body that is not mine and doesn't belong to me no more than I would deface or destruct my neighbors house or car!!! Our body is the temple of GOD and the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit!!! Now God has said our bodies will return to dust and that He will raise us with a new resurrected celestial body, but He can do what He wants, He is the owner, and He has that right!

I have a question for those for tattoos who are Christians, why would you want one... do you "need" one, and why argue or put up a fuss about it? If you have no conviction and if your not worried about what God thinks as in if its a sin, is this wrong, why feel the need of justification or to defend yourselves if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you know their is absolutely nothing wrong with it and your doing nothing wrong? Do you need this confirmation and approval from MAN? Scripture is clear on its teaching as well pertaining to fighting against a doubting conscious or those people who are double-minded!!!

Now I would love to get this answer...

I don't have a tattoo and I have no desire to get one. The reason I take issue with the lines of reasoning presented here are not because of a focus on my part on the narrow issue of whether or not I or anyone else should have a tattoo, it's because I have an overall issue with the mindset of legalism and returning in my relationship with Jesus Christ which is based upon grace to the performance based relationship which characterized the mindset in the New Testament of the Pharisees and the Judiazers. In the end it's not the tattoo that makes any real difference to me. It's the attitude approaching the issue.

Very hypocritical... "In the end it's not the tattoo that makes any real difference to me. It's the attitude approaching the issue." How does this differ... either there is an issue or not period. The same lagalistic mindset would apply. However, its a very relevant and new test teaching that our bodies are temples that belong to God and the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit!!! There is no sly of attitude when teaching scripture, truth, and personal convictions. That is what the scripture is for, teaching, correction, reproof. Most say the same thing you say applying towards attitude when sharing any type of truth pertaining to scripture... I find this humorous. But again to each his own, let each man be fully persuaded in their own minds. Is it sin, the case could be made? From a new test perspective at that. Will you go to hell based of it... personally I don't think so but why the risk? Will you hinder your fellowship... probably. I'm leaving it at that. Don't forget God said the law is good, and paul said without it we wouldn't even know sin, the point could possibly be made as conviction as well. Are we condemned if we follow the law out of love cause we want to and its good and inscribed on our hearts and should be for generation upon generation, line upon line, and precept upon precept? NO!!! If we try to keep law upon means of SALVATION then yes... the law cannot save you, if it could then applies the scripture in that if you keep one law you must keep the entire law or you break all of the law, but you only break in regards to a works-salvation as you've implied. Jesus saves, but the law is good, and we will keep His law, statues, commands if we love Him, out of love, and its not us anyways but God and the power of the Holy Spirit who resides in us...

I am personally against it... I have no right to deface or destruct a body that is not mine and doesn't belong to me no more than I would deface or destruct my neighbors house or car!!! Our body is the temple of GOD and the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit!!! Now God has said our bodies will return to dust and that He will raise us with a new resurrected celestial body, but He can do what He wants, He is the owner, and He has that right!

Zacchaeus, is it accurate for me to assume that you hold to all the dietary laws of the Old Testament? Have you ever put anything unhealthy into your body? Isn't that "destructing" your body that doesn't belong to you?

Heres a pretty good response to those who are unsure if getting a tattoo is a sin: http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhel ... istian.htm

hmmm... Rick, "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

You've completely missed the point I made... and/or just didn't read it all and/or just didn't understand it!!! Again, I'm not going to stand between you though, or anyone else... you just better be for sure without a doubting conscience and a doubting mind!!! Ones sin, ones choices, ones salvation, etc. is between the individual and God, I can only show you scripture and then tell you why i believe what i believe and share my conviction.

I now remember why I've left this site completely a wow back and hadn't responded in a very long time... this site isn't for edification but confusion and God is not the author of confusion.

Good day...God bless

zacchaeus wrote:hmmm... Rick, "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

You've completely missed the point I made... and/or just didn't read it all and/or just didn't understand it!!! Again, I'm not going to stand between you though, or anyone else... you just better be for sure without a doubting conscience and a doubting mind!!! Ones sin, ones choices, ones salvation, etc. is between the individual and God, I can only show you scripture and then tell you why i believe what i believe and share my conviction.

I now remember why I've left this site completely a wow back and hadn't responded in a very long time... this site isn't for edification but confusion and God is not the author of confusion.

Good day...God bless

That's certainly your prerogative but I must say I don't see anything in what Rick said that would prompt you to feel like that. But if that's your final decision then all the best.

Zacchaeus, you said:

I am personally against it... I have no right to deface or destruct a body

I assumed you meant "cause harm to", when you said "destruct". And that is your reasoning for not getting a tattoo. Many of the foods we eat, cause harm to our bodies. I was talking in that regards, not defilement, because you used the word "destruct". If I misunderstood you, then forgive me. Did you look at the link I posted? Where do you disagree?

Its not that I disagree, most of what is said in the article I do agree with... as well as many of all yalls points.

Going off of the Kosher idea, same as why I assume you pointed out... lets take the same reasoning for other Levitcal law or priesthood
Did you know that "bestiality" too (sicko, perverted, sex with an animal) was ONLY forbidden in the Old Testament Levitical Law? Only in Leviticus 18:23 and Leviticus 20:15-16. Dude, only in the Old Testament Law. Does that mean a Holy God NOW – under the New Testament, approves of bestiality?

By the way, have you ever read Leviticus 19:29? The verse immediately AFTER the "it’s not for me" Leviticus 19:28?

Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.
Leviticus 19:29

This is the only place in the Bible that God directly forbids someone to prostitute their daughter. And since, it’s ONLY in the Old Testament Levitical Law (and "hey, dude, we’re NOT under the law") – it MUST be ok by the Lord for a parent to cause their daughter to prostitute.

Same sick, perverted, wicked, line of reasoning as the "it’s ONLY in the Old Testament-tattoo-bearer-wearer". Same reasoning. . . Same disobedience. . . Same perversion of the Word of God.

There are many other "moral laws’ that are ONLY forbidden in the Old Testament, such as the human sacrifice of children. No where in the New Testament is this forbidden. Does that mean that NOW under the New Testament, God Almighty endorses throwing babies into the fire as a human sacrifice?

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:21

Matthew Henry’s Commentary at the beginning of Leviticus 19 explains that most of Leviticus 19 (such as verse 19:28) are moral commandments that applies not only for Israel but for the New Testament Christian today.

"Some ceremonial precepts there are in this chapter, but most of them are moral. . . Most of these precepts are binding on us, for they are expositions of most of the ten commandments."
(Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible, Leviticus 19:28)

zacchaeus wrote:Very hypocritical... "In the end it's not the tattoo that makes any real difference to me. It's the attitude approaching the issue." How does this differ... either there is an issue or not period. The same lagalistic mindset would apply. However, its a very relevant and new test teaching that our bodies are temples that belong to God and the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit!!! There is no sly of attitude when teaching scripture, truth, and personal convictions. That is what the scripture is for, teaching, correction, reproof. Most say the same thing you say applying towards attitude when sharing any type of truth pertaining to scripture... I find this humorous. But again to each his own, let each man be fully persuaded in their own minds. Is it sin, the case could be made? From a new test perspective at that. Will you go to hell based of it... personally I don't think so but why the risk? Will you hinder your fellowship... probably. I'm leaving it at that. Don't forget God said the law is good, and paul said without it we wouldn't even know sin, the point could possibly be made as conviction as well. Are we condemned if we follow the law out of love cause we want to and its good and inscribed on our hearts and should be for generation upon generation, line upon line, and precept upon precept? NO!!! If we try to keep law upon means of SALVATION then yes... the law cannot save you, if it could then applies the scripture in that if you keep one law you must keep the entire law or you break all of the law, but you only break in regards to a works-salvation as you've implied. Jesus saves, but the law is good, and we will keep His law, statues, commands if we love Him, out of love, and its not us anyways but God and the power of the Holy Spirit who resides in us...

Thanks zaccheus. If you're nearby when we're lined up in heaven for the tattoo inspection, I'll give you a high five.

You keep your relationship with God through the law and I'll keep mine through Christ's grace and we'll see how it works out. Let me know from time to time how well you're doing at keeping all the law.

That's as much as I'll say except to note that my response is only addressing you in this manner as you set the tone by breaking from the issue and making me personally the issue. That's usually the first sign that the conversation is over, so it's over for me. Those reading this thread now and in the future will I hope be able to discern that which is of the Spirit and that which is of the flesh in attempting to walk in the spirit or walk under the old taskmaster of the law.

My relationship with God isn't based off the law, however you act like the law is bad, when its good, you wouldn't even be able to state your own position without the law,... your discernment sir is way off and no where near what I've said here. Yall must not be reading what I'm saying. Let me ask do you have a tat... if not then by default your keeping the law since not having one. If nothing is wrong and you can't keep the law then you by your own reasoning force everyone to break the law, the only way to not keep it would be to get a tat... so then I guess every Christian without a tat isn't getting in Heaven!!!

If there isn't anything wrong with tats beyond a shadow of doubt then the in the link the dude wouldn't have to reason with the questions he ask for determining why someone should or shouldn't get one, is he God- no!!!... either we can or can't and its that simple... no ifs!!!

This is ridiculous... it amazes me. We either want to offer ourselves a living sacrifice or we don't. Is a tat spiritual or of the WORLD, comparing it Kosherly isn't a fair comparison and is quite ridiculous. We are called out from among the world and to be ye separate, we are not to love things of the world if so the love of the Father isn't in us... also not to follow the traditions of man!!! There are too many scriptures when having two or three or more witnesses and rightly dividing the word of truth that are against tats!!! Sorry, its not me but scripture. Its not just in the law in which you build your entire basis for arguing, well blah blah your keeping the law, your a legalist, your relationship is of the letter and not by the spirit... you judge and condemn, sorry, but not hardly!!! I love ya man, but this is ridiculous... If I've offended you I apologize, however my view of the scripture remains the same when it comes to tats and if a Christian should get one. I could list a long list why they shouldn't, I can't list one reason why they should!!!

zacchaeus wrote:Dom, have a good day...

God bless!!!

Translation: The bible doesn't forbid cremation

Response: Correct. The bible doesn't forbid cremation because this physical body is unnessessary for ressurection. Otherwise, faithful and God loving Christians who tragically died by fire would not be able to redeem the promise God made to them.

However, I am not suggesting that we disrespect our bodies. Merely, that you acknowledge that you understand that your position on this issue is as follows:

Biblically, the flesh has no redeeming quality at any time. Especially after death. We can and do intentially and unintentionally (tragically) "burn the house down".
Yet, you are stating that we cannot "write on the house". Not even a "Jesus saves", "John 3:16", "Adopted by God", "Heaven or bust", etc. Nevermind the fact that it could be taken off.

No further comment necessary.

Dom... Its not Heaven or Bust, I won't say a person will go to hell for getting a tat no more than I'd say for drinking, getting drunk, doing drugs, premarital sex, murder, stealing, lieing, cheating (adultery), cursing, etc... Are they sins? Will they help or hinder your relationship/fellowship? Only rejection of TRUTH of Jesus, which would be blaspheming, saying He isn't who He says He is... denying Him and all He has done will land you in HELL!!! Prove to me that Jesus not only allows but desires for you to get a tat and then we would be doing good. This isn't a battle against a component as you would like, this is for teaching and edifying. I suppose it boils down to how close a relationship we want with JESUS. All things may be permissible, doesn't mean its wise or beneficial; I'm sure that is in the scripture somewhere I just don't know right now off of memory and sorry for the misquote its obviously a paraphrase. You right we can do whatever we want to, we have freewill, doesn't change the status of a statue, command, or sin... Jesus saves, we are adopted, and we must be obedient... to whom much is given much is required, its not a free for all, its not a pardon to sin cause grace is abound... its a matter of love and respect towards our Father!!! So yes, no further comment is necessary... you continue to be as Christ-like as you can and so will I!!!

zacchaeus wrote:Dom... Its not Heaven or Bust, I won't say a person will go to hell for getting a tat no more than I'd say for drinking, getting drunk, doing drugs, premarital sex, murder, stealing, lieing, cheating (adultery), cursing, etc... Are they sins? Will they help or hinder your relationship/fellowship? Only rejection of TRUTH of Jesus, which would be blaspheming, saying He isn't who He says He is... denying Him and all He has done will land you in HELL!!! Prove to me that Jesus not only allows but desires for you to get a tat and then we would be doing good. This isn't a battle against a component as you would like, this is for teaching and edifying. I suppose it boils down to how close a relationship we want with JESUS. All things may be permissible, doesn't mean its wise or beneficial; I'm sure that is in the scripture somewhere I just don't know right now off of memory and sorry for the misquote its obviously a paraphrase. You right we can do whatever we want to, we have freewill, doesn't change the status of a statue, command, or sin... Jesus saves, we are adopted, and we must be obedient... to whom much is given much is required, its not a free for all, its not a pardon to sin cause grace is abound... its a matter of love and respect towards our Father!!! So yes, no further comment is necessary... you continue to be as Christ-like as you can and so will I!!!

Scripture says satan looks magnificent whereas Jesus looked unremarkable. At first thought one would think Jesus would be the most elegant, handsome, best looking creature you've ever seen. [Like David Beckham without the tats???] Regarding the commandments, He said if you THINK adulterously you have broken the law. Jesus is saying it's the person on the inside that counts. It is the spirit that matters because the body ends up in the ground eaten by worms. Anything that takes away from a total focus on the inner man is a distraction from God's purpose. Similarly, Commandment 2....no carved images for protestants takes the focus away from the spiritual and onto the material.