Re: Old Earth Problems?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:49 am
Sure, will start a new thread.Gman wrote:John can you expound on Schroeder a bit?August wrote:Not just gap-theory, but also the perspective theory of Schroeder, for example.
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
Sure, will start a new thread.Gman wrote:John can you expound on Schroeder a bit?August wrote:Not just gap-theory, but also the perspective theory of Schroeder, for example.
I completely agree. Well almost completely. Can't yom also mean the period of daylight in a day? I guess I'm asking how anyone can be so dogmatic as to believe that anyone that believes differently on the meaning of yom is wrong.DannyM wrote:Ricky,RickD wrote:As I understand it. Yom can literally mean a long, finite period of time. So, with that, how can anyone say that "day" in Genesis absolutely cannot mean anything other than a 24 hour day?
1. Yom = one 12 hour period
2. Yom = one 24 hour period
3. Yom = one period of time ... e'g. In the day of the Romans.
Do your picking, brother, but this is the context in which you must deal.
That's roughly what position 1 is referring to.RickD wrote:I completely agree. Well almost completely. Can't yom also mean the period of daylight in a day? I guess I'm asking how anyone can be so dogmatic as to believe that anyone that believes differently on the meaning of yom is wrong.DannyM wrote:Ricky,RickD wrote:As I understand it. Yom can literally mean a long, finite period of time. So, with that, how can anyone say that "day" in Genesis absolutely cannot mean anything other than a 24 hour day?
1. Yom = one 12 hour period
2. Yom = one 24 hour period
3. Yom = one period of time ... e'g. In the day of the Romans.
Do your picking, brother, but this is the context in which you must deal.
Rick, I believe Canuckster1127 is correct in pointing you to #1.RickD wrote:I completely agree. Well almost completely. Can't yom also mean the period of daylight in a day? I guess I'm asking how anyone can be so dogmatic as to believe that anyone that believes differently on the meaning of yom is wrong.
I've been trying to think of a passage that I think is allegorical.Canuckster1127 wrote:There's nothing wrong with reading a passage in the Bible allegorically, IF the evidence of the passage indicates that that is the manner in which the original author intended it and the original audience received it. If that is the case, than the underlying message of the allegory IS the literal or intended meaning.
I agree with Genesis being the history of the world with focus on the Israeli nation. But I think "pre-scientific, pre-culture, and non precise language" is stretching it. The book of Job was written not too long after the flood and that's a wealth of scientific information as well as pretty cultural and precise language.In the case of Genesis, however, there's no reason to see it overall as metaphorical or allegorical. Genesis, in my opinion, in chapters 1 - 11 was written by Moses to the nation of Israel during the time of the Exodus and it was intended to provide them with an answer as to who they were as a people and why and how God has chosen them. It included some oral tradition with which they were already familiar and it included a framework in which Israel was to see the hab of God at work and pointing toward them (and Christ) as God's means of blessing the nations.
The context is in a pre-scientific era and culture and the language in that regard is not precise.
I find it odd that a literal Genesis is not accepted since it was quoted from or used as a picture 200 times in the new testament. And I find it more allegorical that "And the evening and the morning were the first day." is considered something other than a 24 hour period of time. What elements am I "reading" into the text that are not there literally?Ironically, for me, I see the YEC interpretation as more allegorical in the sense that it attempts to read elements into the text that are not there literally in an attempt to justify a hermeneutical approach that they believe is necessary to support other elements of their theology and maintain consistency in a tight logical structure. This type of approach is completely foreign to the thinking and culture of the Hebrews in my estimation and it in effect elevates the hermeneutic over the Scripture itself.
You're using the word "literal" in a manner that I haven't and if we don't agree on what forms the basis of a "literal" understanding then we're going to be speaking past one another. I am OEC. I accept and affirm the inspiration and infallibility of Scripture. I believe Genesis is a part of Scripture. The translation of the word "yom" (day) is the issue.I find it odd that a literal Genesis is not accepted since it was quoted from or used as a picture 200 times in the new testament. And I find it more allegorical that "And the evening and the morning were the first day." is considered something other than a 24 hour period of time. What elements am I "reading" into the text that are not there literally?