Re: Dr. Hugh Ross
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:04 pm
Canuckster wrote:
It's a pretty clear illustration to me of the transferrence of the greek concept of philosphical perfection as described above when contrasted and compared with the hebraic mindset and tradition which did not carry and elevate these when it speaks of "goodness". Perfection in that context is not Platonic and Aristotilean. It's part of the elements introduced especially through Aquinas that has had such great impact in this and many other arenas. The actual framework of approach carried baggage and adds things or changes emphasis to arrive at things that often were in my opinion never intended or understood by Christ, the Apostles and the early church.
Grossly overstated Jac. The Trinity didn't suddenly appear in the 3rd or 4th century. It was a restatement of what the majority of the church already believed and put forth from its earliest days. It was not the gift of anyone or anything outside the gospel message and scriptures themselves. I do happen to think that the loss of perichoresis in the west was due more to events in the 3rd and 4th century that had to do with the introduction of other elements that we've spoken of. The use of all or nothing structures like what you've indicated above are typical of some of the dualistic structures added after the time of Christ and the early Church, but your attempt to define things in that matter do not require me or others to accept the premises upon which they rest.We've had this conversation before. If you are this anti-philosophy, then I suggest you stop talking about the Trinity, or three persons in one being, because that is completely and 100% based on Greek philosophy. You may object that the Bible calls Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit all God, but none of that equals the Trinity. It is only when you apply philosophy you get to the formal doctrine. Further, if you are going to reject Greek philosophy, then stop applying the law of non-contradiction or reason it all. You can't have it both ways, Bart.
I'm not anti-philosophy. It has value in places. I'm anti the attempt to strip mystery from the Godhead and person(s) of God by means not employed or intended in the original writings or in the early church. I appreciate Augustine and Thomistic theology as far as it goes. I don't accept it as a suitable replacement for or an addition to the gospel message itself particularly when I see the fruits that some of it has given rise to. You no doubt disagree with me, but I see this as very pertinent and relevant to the discussion at hand because I believe many elements of YEC find their primogenesis in this realm and the results are not in my estimation particularly desirable. Ironically, I think some of the elements Augustine warned against in one of the quotes of my signature have been brought to full fruition in that regard by the attempt to isolate scripture from realm of natural reality.
(edited and elements added 3.1.2010 1:12 am est)