Evidence for God from Science

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

There. America = secular.

However, America has a lot of Christians in it... but that just makes it a secular nation with lots of Christians in it. The UK on the other hand is a Christian nation, it has an official church. It's a Christian nation with a lot of atheists in it.

Harry12345 wrote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

There. America = secular.

However, America has a lot of Christians in it... but that just makes it a secular nation with lots of Christians in it. The UK on the other hand is a Christian nation, it has an official church. It's a Christian nation with a lot of atheists in it.

Harry, the FF's, by establishing this, rightly recognised that a religious establishment, with all its theological wrangling and in-fighting, was not the way forward. This does not make it a secular nation.

DannyM wrote:

Harry12345 wrote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

There. America = secular.

However, America has a lot of Christians in it... but that just makes it a secular nation with lots of Christians in it. The UK on the other hand is a Christian nation, it has an official church. It's a Christian nation with a lot of atheists in it.

Harry, the FF's, by establishing this, rightly recognised that a religious establishment, with all its theological wrangling and in-fighting, was not the way forward. This does not make it a secular nation.

One definition is quantifiable and easily difined. The other is qualitative and subject to change and perception. It all comes back to definition.

Err, anyone else notice that the Constitution only says *Congress* say make no law about religion. State or local governments can, as can the other branches of the national government(within their power, of course)

Human wrote:Err, anyone else notice that the Constitution only says *Congress* say make no law about religion. State or local governments can, as can the other branches of the national government(within their power, of course)

That's partially true. There was no intent to limit states in this regard. The other branches of the National Government cannot, by definition, make laws. That is solely the domain of the congress. The effective making of legislation by executive order, for example or the Supreme Court being judicially active to effectively make law, instead of interpreting and applying existing law, is something that was not intended by the Founding Fathers.

Human wrote:Err, anyone else notice that the Constitution only says *Congress* say make no law about religion. State or local governments can, as can the other branches of the national government(within their power, of course)

Indeed. However the 14th Amendment means that the Bill of Rights applies to states as well.

Harry12345 wrote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

There. America = secular.

However, America has a lot of Christians in it... but that just makes it a secular nation with lots of Christians in it. The UK on the other hand is a Christian nation, it has an official church. It's a Christian nation with a lot of atheists in it.

Yeah. I really think it's safe to say that America was an unofficial Christian nation. You can't get away from it, the reference to Christianity being in so many early things, and it being founded for the purpose of practicing Christianity in a way different from England. We were obviously not a Buddhist of Muslim or atheist nation! The UK seems the opposite to me, from what I've read about the number of faithful there; it's officially Christian, but unofficially agnostic of atheist.

cslewislover wrote:

Harry12345 wrote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

There. America = secular.

However, America has a lot of Christians in it... but that just makes it a secular nation with lots of Christians in it. The UK on the other hand is a Christian nation, it has an official church. It's a Christian nation with a lot of atheists in it.

Yeah. I really think it's safe to say that America was an unofficial Christian nation. You can't get away from it, the reference to Christianity being in so many early things, and it being founded for the purpose of practicing Christianity in a way different from England. We were obviously not a Buddhist of Muslim or atheist nation! The UK seems the opposite to me, from what I've read about the number of faithful there; it's officially Christian, but unofficially agnostic of atheist.

^Agreed.

Harry12345 wrote:

Human wrote:Err, anyone else notice that the Constitution only says *Congress* say make no law about religion. State or local governments can, as can the other branches of the national government(within their power, of course)

Indeed. However the 14th Amendment means that the Bill of Rights applies to states as well.

Erm...how? I do not see that.

One thing I think we can all agree on is the fact that this great nation was founded by (mostly) Christian men. It is equally clear from reading the founding documents that there is no evidence that the founding fathers intended this to be a nation based on one religion. Rather, the intent (as I see it) was to establish a nation based on freedom. Just as we do not force people to become Christians, nor did the ff want to push their particular brand of Christianity on anyone. We would do well to remember that they (the ff) came from various forms of Christianity.

One question I have been wrestling with is this; If we are truly to believe that we are a christian nation, then why did the ff seem to go against Romans 13: 1-7 ?

" 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

After all wasn't the issue taxation without representation?

Blessings!

One thing I think we can all agree on is the fact that this great nation was founded by (mostly) Christian men.

I'm not sure I can agree with this statement. I believe that most of the FF were most likely deists, but not Christians. All one has to do is look at the absence of the mention of Christ in their writings. I believe this nation was and still is the best nation in the history of mankind. But, as I have stated before, it never was intended to be a Christian nation. It was meant to be a FREE nation. Free for men to worship as they desired. Free for men to pursue happiness as they desired.

RickD....Point well taken.

RickD wrote:I believe this nation was and still is the best nation in the history of mankind.

//www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day ... ere-not-1/ (has the sources )

Lol. You know, I used to be ultra liberal and read stuff like this. There are all kinds of stats out there, and I'm sure some of these are pretty accurate. But still, I think many are not. If things are so bad, then how come so many people still want to come here?? "Effectiveness of Education" - I'd have to look that one up. This country is still on the leading edge of quite a few things, is it not? Maybe someone else knows more about that. There are quite a few things I don't think are great about this country, but this type of thing you posted is just an unrealistic mud-in-the-eye sort of thing. Why do you get enjoyment from doing this, I wonder? I don't go around posting bad stuff about your country.

cslewislover wrote:this type of thing you posted is just an unrealistic mud-in-the-eye sort of thing.

agreed.

cslewislover wrote:Why do you get enjoyment from doing this, I wonder?

The mouth speaks out of the abundance of the heart.

FL