Evidence for God from Science

Bart,
RE: reading board rules. I have. I don't see anything in there to indicate that I am repsonsible for what another poster says. In this case, FL. How you want to handle FL's comments to Kris is your perogative. (As my comments to Kris, have not crossed board lines) Simply stating my opinion that FL's harsh remarks may tread board etiquette, but still may be an appropiate response, biblically speaking.

What about the man who was crucified with Jesus? One of the gospels has Jesus forgiving this criminal man and saying that he will be in paradise. Jesus was really full of forgiveness, I am unsure whether to call him a god, or just the messiah or really someone who generally just improves a person's quality of life. But I can really take into account all of the things that made Jesus a virtuous person, someone who we should all take upon ourselves to be more alike.

Kris,

I'm not sure what you are driving at here. What is the question?

Why would being more like Jesus make you virtuous? According to what standard?

Thanks Jlay. I think you're crossing posters here. You address the first portion to me but the quote following is not mine.

bart

Sure,

I'll edit to make it more clear.

The standard is that liek other people that came before him, it was plain to the eye and ear that this was a good person and emulating or copying a special man means that you pretend to be them.

Like putting on a beautiful porcilean mask on to your disfigured face and finding after 5 years that your face has changed to fit the shape of the mask.

But that doesn't happen if you don't acknowledge who He was. He was not simply a good man. Read through Mere Christianity. You cannot rationally believe that Christ was simply a good person.

i say why not? Even good people can tell stories and fibs. Even good people make mistakes. If you think Jesus had a perfect life put your hand up.

my hand is up...

tell you what, go read through Mere CHristianity and while you are reading it we can dialogue here about why Jesus cannot simply be a good person.

Kristoffer wrote:i say why not? Even good people can tell stories and fibs. Even good people make mistakes. If you think Jesus had a perfect life put your hand up.

The Bible says Jesus was perfect. I totally believe He was perfect. He was the sinless Son of God.

Jesus was perfect in His standing before God in relation to His Law.

You can not be saved and deny the perfect life of Christ. It is who Christ is. The perfect, spotless Lamb of God. Obviously it depends on how you are defining perfect.

Even good people make mistakes.

Mistakes are not sins. The bible says, that sin is transgression of the law. If a child messes up tying their shoes, are they sinning? No. Did Jesus look up from the manger at the wise men, and speak in perfect Aramaic? I doubt it.

Now, i understand more where Kris is coming from....

I mean if he truley repents then yes he is forgiven

He must acknowledge what is wrong with his sins and do his best never to recommit them

and @ kris, my hand are up

^Me too .

Both my hands are up, praise the Lord.

jlay wrote: Mistakes are not sins. The bible says, that sin is transgression of the law. If a child messes up tying their shoes, are they sinning? No. Did Jesus look up from the manger at the wise men, and speak in perfect Aramaic? I doubt it.

What I wonder about is how the two following verses fit together:

John 2:3-4
3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

Exodus 20:12
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.

To quote some source: Such rudeness and irrelevance packed into one short statement!

Was it rude?