Evidence for God from Science

Seraph wrote:Again, the recurring assumption seems to be that love only exists between straight couples and that homosexuals only feel infatuated toward each other. But what is the evidence for this? To me, it's completely circular.

Not at all what i am saying. Love can exist between men like Jesus loves all people including men.

CeT-To wrote:

Seraph wrote:Again, the recurring assumption seems to be that love only exists between straight couples and that homosexuals only feel infatuated toward each other. But what is the evidence for this? To me, it's completely circular.

Not at all what i am saying. Love can exist between men like Jesus loves all people including men.

I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying here CeT-To. We are supposed to love everyone, male or female. It's when a "sexual love" comes into the picture between those of the same sex, that it becomes something other than what God desires for us.

Again, I'm seeing a recurring theme here that the majority of people with homosexual tendencies have been missing a healthy, loving relationship in their lives. It becomes a vicious cycle when the person who only knows broken relationships, "marries" someone of the same sex, and adopts kids. These kids then are brought up in an unhealthy relationship, and it just keeps going. In some ways it's the same as a child who isn't homosexual, and only knows broken relationships. He may perpetuate the cycle when his marriage ends up the same way.

When we have a healthy relationship with God through Christ, we don't long for other relationships that are contrary to what God wants for us.

CeT-To wrote:

Murray wrote:

CeT-To wrote:

Murray wrote:^

I was referring to the gender they are attracted to love. meaning they are attracted to men, so they could eventually find love with men because thats why they are attracted to, sorry for the confusion , I should be more clear when I write.

I have to ask in what way are they attracted to men? sexually? because if they are thats bad for the body and if they proceed with this then they are both hurting eachother hence it isnt an act of love ( thus not love) but rather it is letting your destructive passions take over.

Why are men attracted to commit the same act of sodomy on women may I ask?

Because there is something wrong in their mind ( cough sin cough). I don't get what you are trying to get with this question, Murray?

Note: Im almost taking directly from my pastors sermon

When you ask jesus to enter you and your life you are filled with the holy spirit correct? When you look at pornography as a christian what do you feel? Ashamed, that is god telling you , "hey, your better than that", when you talk behind somebody’s back and make up gossip and rumours and then later you feel awful that’s the holy spirit telling you "hey your better than that". True Christians who have accepted Jesus cannot sin with a clean conscience, we know what we do is wrong soon after or right after we do it. If a devout Christian who has Jesus and has accepted Jesus is homosexual and he can be a homosexual with a clean conscience with absolutely no conscience about it at all, what does that say? If the holy spirit does not imply to that person that homosexuality is wrong, who are we to argue with the holy spirit.

Look at the message in Hebrews 5:11-15, this is saying that we as Christians are guided by god, not like children who must be given rules and follow without thought. God intends us to live my grace, not by strict rules as seen in Hebrews 13:9 and Romans 6:15

If a devout Christian who has Jesus and has accepted Jesus is homosexual and he can be a homosexual with a clean conscience with absolutely no conscience about it at all, what does that say? If the holy spirit does not imply to that person that homosexuality is wrong, who are we to argue with the holy spirit.

Murray, this fails to take into account someone who continually does things that are contrary to God's will. Their heart may become hardened, and they refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit telling them that what they're doing is wrong. It also assumes that the conscience is the same as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I believe God gave everyone a conscience, but the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is given only to born-again believers.

If the holy spirit does not imply to that person that homosexuality is wrong, who are we to argue with the holy spirit.

If the "holy spirit" is contrary to the bible, which says specifically that homosexual sex is sinful, then it's not the Holy Spirit.

RickD wrote:

If a devout Christian who has Jesus and has accepted Jesus is homosexual and he can be a homosexual with a clean conscience with absolutely no conscience about it at all, what does that say? If the holy spirit does not imply to that person that homosexuality is wrong, who are we to argue with the holy spirit.

Murray, this fails to take into account someone who continually does things that are contrary to God's will. Their heart may become hardened, and they refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit telling them that what they're doing is wrong. It also assumes that the conscience is the same as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I believe God gave everyone a conscience, but the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is given only to born-again believers.

If they ignore the holy spirit then they are not with jesus are they? How do you know that a homosexual who has accepted jesus and follows god is not with the holy spirit? When did jesus speak of homosexuality? We live by grace and guidance, not by set laws, our grace may be dependant on the laws but they are not infinatly tied to them. Again I will quote Hebrews 5:11-Hebrews 5:14 and Romans 6:15

God also thought stoning was a good way to get rid of children who cursed their parents in the old testament, I hear a much different message in the new testament however....

Just to clear something up.

The reason I do not speak against homosexuality is that If I do, and it is truley not against god, then I am using the lord name in vein. Same with the other way around, I speak neither for or against it, thats why I am trying to search and discover what god really wills

Murray wrote:God also thought stoning was a good way to get rid of children who cursed their parents in the old testament, I hear a much different message in the new testament however....

If i remember correctly from old testament scolars and of such scholarly fields concerning the Laws. That the stoning of children in those cases were only for those who children who did absolutely atrocious acts, im not sure what example to give you though because like i said my memory is hazy from whatve ive been informed and i dont want to give you false info. LOL but it was never like ... kids dont want to clean their rooms? Stoning time!

Edit : http://www.youtube.com/user/rfvidz#p/se ... avMx3gsTSE

http://www.youtube.com/user/rfvidz#p/se ... dCch7fjO1k

Try these 2 links i think i do remember that Paul Copan is a good source for questions about the morality of the God from the old testament. I know they're lengthy but when you have time give them a go

CeT-To wrote:

Murray wrote:God also thought stoning was a good way to get rid of children who cursed their parents in the old testament, I hear a much different message in the new testament however....

If i remember correctly from old testament scolars and of such scholarly fields concerning the Laws. That the stoning of children in those cases were only for those who children who did absolutely atrocious acts, im not sure what example to give you though because like i said my memory is hazy from whatve ive been informed and i dont want to give you false info. LOL but it was never like ... kids dont want to clean their rooms? Stoning time!

hmm.. Maybe adultry would be a better example eh.

Sorry Murray, I edited my last post with links.

Murray wrote:

When did jesus speak of homosexuality?

Murray, Do you believe Jesus is God? If you do, then reread Leviticus 18:22. That is The Lord speaking directly to Moses.

RickD wrote:Murray wrote:

When did jesus speak of homosexuality?

Murray, Do you believe Jesus is God? If you do, then reread Leviticus 18:22. That is The Lord speaking directly to Moses.

So then if god does not change, why does he not wish for the women to be stoned to death if that is what he wanted 3,000 years earlier?

Murray wrote:

RickD wrote:Murray wrote:

When did jesus speak of homosexuality?

Murray, Do you believe Jesus is God? If you do, then reread Leviticus 18:22. That is The Lord speaking directly to Moses.

So then if god does not change, why does he not wish for the women to be stoned to death if that is what he wanted 3,000 years earlier?

what specific stoning of women are you referring to? Each punishment was specifically for each sin. Give us a specific biblical reference that we can explain to you.

Without going into specific cases, I'm saying that if God tells Moses that something is an abomination, just because we are living under grace, that doesn't change how God looks at sin.

John 8:7

Leviticus 20:10