Evidence for God from Science

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

bippy123 wrote:

Byblos wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:We should not read things into scripture to make sinful lifestyles more palatable the same we should not read into the Genesis account of Creation ' millions of years ' to make it more palatable with popular secular stellar evolutionary thought.

Ya just had to go there didn't ya!

Put your hands in the like you don't care and yommmmm
Yom, yom and yom

I'm such a brat

Byblos wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:We should not read things into scripture to make sinful lifestyles more palatable the same we should not read into the Genesis account of Creation ' millions of years ' to make it more palatable with popular secular stellar evolutionary thought.

Ya just had to go there didn't ya!

You betcha . Reading things into scripture that arent there, is not nice to do.

I think that this discussion has proved how interpretation can lead to different opinions, very different opinions.

CallMeDave wrote:Reading things into scripture that arent there, is not nice to do.

Oh I fully agree Dave.

BryanH wrote:I think that this discussion has proved how interpretation can lead to different opinions, very different opinions.

Not on the subject of Sin and why Christ came to earth to conquer its affect on our life . He came to give us power OVER being addicted to sin lifestyles like homosexuality and heterosexual casual sex for instance. So much so that in 1 Cor. 5 we are commanded to stay away from those who say they are Christians yet regularly engage in a lifestyle of sexual sin . Note that it doesnt say 'UNLESS the person is addicted' !

Not on the subject of Sin and why Christ came to earth to conquer its affect on our life . He came to give us power OVER being addicted to sin lifestyles like homosexuality and heterosexual casual sex for instance. So much so that in 1 Cor. 5 we are commanded to stay away from those who say they are Christians yet regularly engage in a lifestyle of sexual sin . Note that it doesnt say 'UNLESS the person is addicted' !

Good luck for the future to come!!

We must always take into account the genre of the scripture when we try to interpret it and more so when we try to apply it to modern times.
Not all scripture is literal AND concrete or on the same level of inspiration ( compare Numbers with Isaiah for example).
That said, the passages against homosexuality are quite clear ( even if female homosexuality was not mentioned in the OT).
Homosexuality is a sin, it is not right and not viewed as correct by any of the writers of any of the books that mention it.
That said, we must endevour to "love the sinner and hate the sin" and never forget that.
I won't argue whether or not one can be a Christian and homosexual, that is for Christ to judge and decide.
I do believe that IF one accepts the HS into our lives that the sins we have done and are still in us to do, CAN be overcome.

PaulSacramento wrote: ...............
I won't argue whether or not one can be a Christian and homosexual, that is for Christ to judge and decide.
I do believe that IF one accepts the HS into our lives that the sins we have done and are still in us to do, CAN be overcome.

Paul, The Bible doesnt condemn all critical thinking (judging) and in fact there is plenty of scripture which encourages us to judge, discern, then help a wayward person get back on the right road. As for being a lifestyle homosexual AND a real born again Christian...if a real Christian can be One then Christ failed at coming to Earth giving us the power to be Overcomers of sinful dangerous perverted lifestyles. And the passage in 1 Cor. 5 commanding us to not have anything to do with a professed Christian who is habitually involved in sexual sin , becomes nullified .

BryanH wrote:

Not on the subject of Sin and why Christ came to earth to conquer its affect on our life . He came to give us power OVER being addicted to sin lifestyles like homosexuality and heterosexual casual sex for instance. So much so that in 1 Cor. 5 we are commanded to stay away from those who say they are Christians yet regularly engage in a lifestyle of sexual sin . Note that it doesnt say 'UNLESS the person is addicted' !

Good luck for the future to come!!

Its not 'luck' that a person needs to be an Overcomer of habitual sinful lifestyles...its the available power which comes from Christ crucified -- the power to make us victorious over Satans plan to keep us in bondage and enslavement to sin. If we keep on fooling ourselves that we can get away with being immeshed in the very lifestyle sins which Christ died for, then we have adoped the 'greasy-grace' syndrome . And THAT is not walking in the victory of Christ , nor the kind of life that God wants for us, and essentially is still being friends with the world and its lustful immoral pleasures. We are called to be NEW creations and to make our bodies a living sacrifice to God and in humble appreciation and gratitude for what he has done for us. Let us not treat Gods mercy in a flippant manner because we want to partake in lifestyles that give us temporary superficial fleshly pleasures.

CallMeDave wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: ...............
I won't argue whether or not one can be a Christian and homosexual, that is for Christ to judge and decide.
I do believe that IF one accepts the HS into our lives that the sins we have done and are still in us to do, CAN be overcome.

Paul, The Bible doesnt condemn all critical thinking (judging) and in fact there is plenty of scripture which encourages us to judge, discern, then help a wayward person get back on the right road. As for being a lifestyle homosexual AND a real born again Christian...if a real Christian can be One then Christ failed at coming to Earth giving us the power to be Overcomers of sinful dangerous perverted lifestyles. And the passage in 1 Cor. 5 commanding us to not have anything to do with a professed Christian who is habitually involved in sexual sin , becomes nullified .

I've been lurking around for a while now. I didn't really find anything that I felt compelled to comment on, but now this is posted.

Is heterosexuality a lifestyle? I am no proponent of the homosexual lifestyle much like I do not promote the heterosexual lifestyle as they are not ideas, thoughts, or a stance we choose from one moment to the next based on our whims.

Christ did not come so that we could overcome sin, but that EVEN THOUGH WE ARE SINNERS, grace is given to us by Christ through faith. There is nothing we must accomplish to gain this grace as it is a gift. To say one must overcome the "sinful dangerous perverted lifestyle [of homosexuality] is to claim Christ's Righteousness weak.

This is not to say that this gives the homosexual carte blanche to act as he/she pleases, much like it doesn't give the heterosexual carte blanche to act as he/she pleases. We are sinners from birth and no amount of "overcoming" gains the Christian salvation.

A homosexual can, then IMHO, be a Christian. One that struggles with a huge demon that I could not overcome. If the circumstances were turned, I could not at all, not even joking, could I turn my "love" of women as sexual and life partners...I don't wish that struggle on anyone and certainly would NEVER condemn someone in that struggle to say they are lost unless they switch teams. That struggle is personal. Only the person and God know the heart.

Hopefully I worded my thoughts correctly...

CallMeDave wrote:

Byblos wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:We should not read things into scripture to make sinful lifestyles more palatable the same we should not read into the Genesis account of Creation ' millions of years ' to make it more palatable with popular secular stellar evolutionary thought.

Ya just had to go there didn't ya!

You betcha . Reading things into scripture that arent there, is not nice to do.

Kinda like reading "no animal death before the fall", into scripture? Or is it only a wrong interpretation when it doesn't agree with your dogmatic view?

Nice to see you Bav. Have missed seeing you around as much.

BryanH wrote:I think that this discussion has proved how interpretation can lead to different opinions, very different opinions.

This is why most if the times I don't interpret scripture by myself:) , maybe there was someone that was given the authority to interpret scripture:)

CallMeDave wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: ...............
I won't argue whether or not one can be a Christian and homosexual, that is for Christ to judge and decide.
I do believe that IF one accepts the HS into our lives that the sins we have done and are still in us to do, CAN be overcome.

Paul, The Bible doesnt condemn all critical thinking (judging) and in fact there is plenty of scripture which encourages us to judge, discern, then help a wayward person get back on the right road. As for being a lifestyle homosexual AND a real born again Christian...if a real Christian can be One then Christ failed at coming to Earth giving us the power to be Overcomers of sinful dangerous perverted lifestyles. And the passage in 1 Cor. 5 commanding us to not have anything to do with a professed Christian who is habitually involved in sexual sin , becomes nullified .

Critical thinking is not condemned but judge others is ( see 1Peter) and for those that judge, the very measure of how they judge, they too will be judged.
Personally I am not qualified to Judge ANYONE on whether they are or are not Christian ( or what type of Christian they are) and so I leave that to Christ.
I have enough to answer for already.
I agree that homosexuality is a sin and must be dealt with by anyone professing to be of Christ.
It is a struggles for us ALL to deal with sin, sometimes we win the battle but more often we lose, that is why I am thankful for the Grace of God through Christ.
And why I won't judge anyone elses failings since I have enough of a hard time with my own.

CallmeDave wrote:

Paul, The Bible doesnt condemn all critical thinking (judging) and in fact there is plenty of scripture which encourages us to judge, discern, then help a wayward person get back on the right road. As for being a lifestyle homosexual AND a real born again Christian...if a real Christian can be One then Christ failed at coming to Earth giving us the power to be Overcomers of sinful dangerous perverted lifestyles. And the passage in 1 Cor. 5 commanding us to not have anything to do with a professed Christian who is habitually involved in sexual sin , becomes nullified .

Dave, just out of curiosity, in your eyes, is anyone who struggles with sin not a real Christian? Or, is it only those who struggle with homosexuality that can't be "real" Christians?