Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:you guys maybe put Hitler in your imaginary future hell, despit much Scripture that assures us "all go to the same place," forgetting that Hitler was not installed in a coup, but duly elected by those "entirely sane" people. Hence, Hitler is presumed to be a cause, when he is in fact an effect, and a manifestation of the nation who chose him. Hitler = the German people, at that time. Of course plenty of "hell" ensued, but you have no justification for putting Hitler in "hell" right now, and Samuel would be laughing at you, wadr. As would Saul and his sons. With Hitler.

So i'm curious, how much of the Bible in total do you have to ignore in order to make your theology work?

What about your Jesus guy who isn't the Christ? Would he be laughing too?

ah well, you made that up; i never said that, Rick. That is simply what you have to hear, right now, and all of the explanation in the world would not help clarify it any for you, because i must be rejected and considered one of "them" in order for your theology to work, for you. This way you get to Assume the Position, which is basically what we all seek, even me.

You said:

well, you can conflate Jesus with Christ, if you like, i used to believe like that.

It's bad enough that we don't know what you are saying, but it's just plain awful when you don't remember what you said.

yes, terrible. But i have not denied Christ, or that Jesus was the Christ, Rick. But you are the Body of Christ now, Who is in heaven, and Whose Head is God, that you are to manifest on earth, right now, ok, as the Body. And the reason that might be incomprehensible to you i don't know, but have to assume it is because it conflicts with your current beliefs, which are that "Jesus" is in "heaven," and is "coming back to get you," despite the abundant Scripture that demands otherwise.

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:you guys maybe put Hitler in your imaginary future hell, despit much Scripture that assures us "all go to the same place," forgetting that Hitler was not installed in a coup, but duly elected by those "entirely sane" people. Hence, Hitler is presumed to be a cause, when he is in fact an effect, and a manifestation of the nation who chose him. Hitler = the German people, at that time. Of course plenty of "hell" ensued, but you have no justification for putting Hitler in "hell" right now, and Samuel would be laughing at you, wadr. As would Saul and his sons. With Hitler.

So i'm curious, how much of the Bible in total do you have to ignore in order to make your theology work?

What about your Jesus guy who isn't the Christ? Would he be laughing too?

ah well, you made that up; i never said that, Rick. That is simply what you have to hear, right now, and all of the explanation in the world would not help clarify it any for you, because i must be rejected and considered one of "them" in order for your theology to work, for you. This way you get to Assume the Position, which is basically what we all seek, even me.

You said:

well, you can conflate Jesus with Christ, if you like, i used to believe like that.

It's bad enough that we don't know what you are saying, but it's just plain awful when you don't remember what you said.

yes, terrible. But i have not denied Christ, or that Jesus was the Christ, Rick. But you are the Body of Christ now, Who is in heaven, and Whose Head is God, that you are to manifest on earth, right now, ok, as the Body. And the reason that might be incomprehensible to you i don't know, but have to assume it is because it conflicts with your current beliefs, which are that "Jesus" is in "heaven," and is "coming back to get you," despite the abundant Scripture that demands otherwise.

please clarify what scriptures say say otherwise? Christ is Jesus, He is in heaven, and one day, much sooner than expected, He will return.

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote: What about your Jesus guy who isn't the Christ? Would he be laughing too?

ah well, you made that up; i never said that, Rick. That is simply what you have to hear, right now, and all of the explanation in the world would not help clarify it any for you, because i must be rejected and considered one of "them" in order for your theology to work, for you. This way you get to Assume the Position, which is basically what we all seek, even me.

You said:

well, you can conflate Jesus with Christ, if you like, i used to believe like that.

It's bad enough that we don't know what you are saying, but it's just plain awful when you don't remember what you said.

yes, terrible. But i have not denied Christ, or that Jesus was the Christ, Rick. But you are the Body of Christ now, Who is in heaven, and Whose Head is God, that you are to manifest on earth, right now, ok, as the Body. And the reason that might be incomprehensible to you i don't know, but have to assume it is because it conflicts with your current beliefs, which are that "Jesus" is in "heaven," and is "coming back to get you," despite the abundant Scripture that demands otherwise.

please clarify what scriptures say say otherwise? Christ is Jesus, He is in heaven, and one day, much sooner than expected, He will return.

i am sorry to have to tell you that not a single one of those things that you believe is prolly true, at least not in the way that you have been led to believe. Really, i will just be reiterating what i have already said, that you are the Body of Christ now, not Jesus, and the Word is available to you, right now, whenever you are ready, and Rapture is just a heresy that Ezekiel discussed at "pillows," and "soft landings," from "women" then--meaning the spiritual definition of "women"--and from a woman now, in its latest, 100+ year old iteration, and we are sold a bill of goods because we expect and demand sure things from our pastors, and we require our "facts" to be from people who "know" and are confident in their answers, so we find what we seek, which is usually a way to comfortably sit on a fence. Ok? The rest is in my feed already. Or bring me a verse that suggests otherwise to you, and i will tell you what i think of it, but that never hardly works, either.

Just seek God and believe what you like ok. You will find what you seek. Keep knocking, and it will be opened. If you are convinced now that hell is some future place with actual fire in it, then fine, so be it. Later, you might come to feel differently.

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:ah well, you made that up; i never said that, Rick. That is simply what you have to hear, right now, and all of the explanation in the world would not help clarify it any for you, because i must be rejected and considered one of "them" in order for your theology to work, for you. This way you get to Assume the Position, which is basically what we all seek, even me.

You said:

well, you can conflate Jesus with Christ, if you like, i used to believe like that.

It's bad enough that we don't know what you are saying, but it's just plain awful when you don't remember what you said.

yes, terrible. But i have not denied Christ, or that Jesus was the Christ, Rick. But you are the Body of Christ now, Who is in heaven, and Whose Head is God, that you are to manifest on earth, right now, ok, as the Body. And the reason that might be incomprehensible to you i don't know, but have to assume it is because it conflicts with your current beliefs, which are that "Jesus" is in "heaven," and is "coming back to get you," despite the abundant Scripture that demands otherwise.

please clarify what scriptures say say otherwise? Christ is Jesus, He is in heaven, and one day, much sooner than expected, He will return.

i am sorry to have to tell you that not a single one of those things that you believe is prolly true, at least not in the way that you have been led to believe. Really, i will just be reiterating what i have already said, that you are the Body of Christ now, not Jesus, and the Word is available to you, right now, whenever you are ready, and Rapture is just a heresy that Ezekiel discussed at "pillows," and "soft landings," from "women" then--meaning the spiritual definition of "women"--and from a woman now, in its latest, 100+ year old iteration, and we are sold a bill of goods because we expect and demand sure things from our pastors, and we require our "facts" to be from people who "know" and are confident in their answers, so we find what we seek, which is usually a way to comfortably sit on a fence. Ok? The rest is in my feed already. Or bring me a verse that suggests otherwise to you, and i will tell you what i think of it, but that never hardly works, either.

Just seek God and believe what you like ok. You will find what you seek. Keep knocking, and it will be opened. If you are convinced now that hell is some future place with actual fire in it, then fine, so be it. Later, you might come to feel differently.

I do not believe in the rapture either, Bbyrd, but as far as Christ being in heaven, that is true and the bible explicitly says so. Mark 16:19, Psalms 110:1 , Ephesians 1:20 , 1 Peter 3:22, just to name a few.

Philip wrote:

B.W.: No one can become saved in the afterlife. Those of us who share this experience all had to come back and the first thing we did is - Get saved

Well, clearly not EVERYONE who has a near death experience has the SAME type of NDE. Some flatline on a monitor, are clinically dead, and yet come back talking only about "butterflies, amazing colors, or some accepting presence they equate with God." Such people apparently were either allowed to experience some type of counterfeit after-death deception OR they are lying about whatever they didn't actually see. Such people never speak of the Lord or Jesus in their related experience, OR they make statements about some deity that doesn't match up with Scripture. These are people who write books or whatever, but their focus is never Jesus, nor do they assert He is even necessary. While I don't know what happened, or why their experience would be a counterfeit one, clearly these have not experienced seeing God/Jesus before coming back to life on an operating table.

Yes these folks get on Oprah and make millions of dollars

However, they never went beyond the veil so to speak - judged by God - they do not mention this or they chose not too. In hell there are levels or degrees of recompense. Jesus mentions such degrees concerning cities in the gospel accounts. Also the the reap what you sow principle fits here as well too.

Therefore in my opinion is that such folks either never went beyond the veil to face judgment and or thought they saw a nice place in hell which is deception. This nice place is not really a nice place at all, they just did not spend enough time there to recognize the deception. I saw this happen to many folks there that I did not write in my book. This is due to the reap what you sow principle that degree of recompense the current hell has.

So a person is overwhelmed by the living experience of dying, and then encounter the deception of hell masquerading as a place of light due to the degree of just recompense. They are fooled and carry the message of hell that teaches that there is no hell in many various forms and ways to a willing human population on earth.

However, Hell is in the business to uncover the true sin nature of a person and they become that fully in accordance to the sense of timeless time in hell. They become haters and foul beyond what we all can fully imagine showing how they erase all goodness they could ever do. The folks there know they deserve hell as they have seen what they are really-really like and truthfully desire above all else and are thus turned over fully to a reprobate mind...
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jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote: You said:


It's bad enough that we don't know what you are saying, but it's just plain awful when you don't remember what you said.

yes, terrible. But i have not denied Christ, or that Jesus was the Christ, Rick. But you are the Body of Christ now, Who is in heaven, and Whose Head is God, that you are to manifest on earth, right now, ok, as the Body. And the reason that might be incomprehensible to you i don't know, but have to assume it is because it conflicts with your current beliefs, which are that "Jesus" is in "heaven," and is "coming back to get you," despite the abundant Scripture that demands otherwise.

please clarify what scriptures say say otherwise? Christ is Jesus, He is in heaven, and one day, much sooner than expected, He will return.

i am sorry to have to tell you that not a single one of those things that you believe is prolly true, at least not in the way that you have been led to believe. Really, i will just be reiterating what i have already said, that you are the Body of Christ now, not Jesus, and the Word is available to you, right now, whenever you are ready, and Rapture is just a heresy that Ezekiel discussed at "pillows," and "soft landings," from "women" then--meaning the spiritual definition of "women"--and from a woman now, in its latest, 100+ year old iteration, and we are sold a bill of goods because we expect and demand sure things from our pastors, and we require our "facts" to be from people who "know" and are confident in their answers, so we find what we seek, which is usually a way to comfortably sit on a fence. Ok? The rest is in my feed already. Or bring me a verse that suggests otherwise to you, and i will tell you what i think of it, but that never hardly works, either.

Just seek God and believe what you like ok. You will find what you seek. Keep knocking, and it will be opened. If you are convinced now that hell is some future place with actual fire in it, then fine, so be it. Later, you might come to feel differently.

I do not believe in the rapture either, Bbyrd, but as far as Christ being in heaven, that is true and the bible explicitly says so. Mark 16:19, Psalms 110:1 , Ephesians 1:20 , 1 Peter 3:22, just to name a few.

and i am not disagreeing with the verses, understand; i am disputing that heaven is some place, where Christ currently is, when the kingdom has come very near to us, and you are the Body of Christ, and heaven is wherever Christ is. There is no "place" called heaven, ok? Our tendency to understand spiritual things literally is being used against us, and so those verses are made to seem as if Christ is some"where" else, when "where" does not even apply.

So yes, Christ is in heaven, certainly; and you are the Body of Christ, and you have His Spirit available to you, right here, right now, and you can meet Him in the Air, whenever you are ready, don't find love until you are ready, and only God knows when this time will be, of course, because it is different for everyone, when it is they will find Word, or even if they will find It.

"Now concerning that day and hour no one knows--neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son--except the Father only."

Young women of Jerusalem, I charge you: do not stir up or awaken love until the appropriate time.

Love's flames are fiery flames-- the fiercest of all.

(see why we never hear sermons from Song of Songs, lol; and why no one ever quotes from It)

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:yes, terrible. But i have not denied Christ, or that Jesus was the Christ, Rick. But you are the Body of Christ now, Who is in heaven, and Whose Head is God, that you are to manifest on earth, right now, ok, as the Body. And the reason that might be incomprehensible to you i don't know, but have to assume it is because it conflicts with your current beliefs, which are that "Jesus" is in "heaven," and is "coming back to get you," despite the abundant Scripture that demands otherwise.

please clarify what scriptures say say otherwise? Christ is Jesus, He is in heaven, and one day, much sooner than expected, He will return.

i am sorry to have to tell you that not a single one of those things that you believe is prolly true, at least not in the way that you have been led to believe. Really, i will just be reiterating what i have already said, that you are the Body of Christ now, not Jesus, and the Word is available to you, right now, whenever you are ready, and Rapture is just a heresy that Ezekiel discussed at "pillows," and "soft landings," from "women" then--meaning the spiritual definition of "women"--and from a woman now, in its latest, 100+ year old iteration, and we are sold a bill of goods because we expect and demand sure things from our pastors, and we require our "facts" to be from people who "know" and are confident in their answers, so we find what we seek, which is usually a way to comfortably sit on a fence. Ok? The rest is in my feed already. Or bring me a verse that suggests otherwise to you, and i will tell you what i think of it, but that never hardly works, either.

Just seek God and believe what you like ok. You will find what you seek. Keep knocking, and it will be opened. If you are convinced now that hell is some future place with actual fire in it, then fine, so be it. Later, you might come to feel differently.

I do not believe in the rapture either, Bbyrd, but as far as Christ being in heaven, that is true and the bible explicitly says so. Mark 16:19, Psalms 110:1 , Ephesians 1:20 , 1 Peter 3:22, just to name a few.

and i am not disagreeing with the verses, understand; i am disputing that heaven is some place, where Christ currently is, when the kingdom has come very near to us, and you are the Body of Christ, and heaven is wherever Christ is. There is no "place" called heaven, ok? Our tendency to understand spiritual things literally is being used against us, and so those verses are made to seem as if Christ is some"where" else, when "where" does not even apply.

So yes, Christ is in heaven, certainly; and you are the Body of Christ, and you have His Spirit available to you, right here, right now, and you can meet Him in the Air, whenever you are ready, don't find love until you are ready, and only God knows when this time will be, of course, because it is different for everyone, when it is they will find Word, or even if they will find It.

"Now concerning that day and hour no one knows--neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son--except the Father only."

Young women of Jerusalem, I charge you: do not stir up or awaken love until the appropriate time.

Love's flames are fiery flames-- the fiercest of all.

(see why we never hear sermons from Song of Songs, lol; and why no one ever quotes from It)

how do we meet God in the air?

Nessa wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote: please clarify what scriptures say say otherwise? Christ is Jesus, He is in heaven, and one day, much sooner than expected, He will return.

i am sorry to have to tell you that not a single one of those things that you believe is prolly true, at least not in the way that you have been led to believe. Really, i will just be reiterating what i have already said, that you are the Body of Christ now, not Jesus, and the Word is available to you, right now, whenever you are ready, and Rapture is just a heresy that Ezekiel discussed at "pillows," and "soft landings," from "women" then--meaning the spiritual definition of "women"--and from a woman now, in its latest, 100+ year old iteration, and we are sold a bill of goods because we expect and demand sure things from our pastors, and we require our "facts" to be from people who "know" and are confident in their answers, so we find what we seek, which is usually a way to comfortably sit on a fence. Ok? The rest is in my feed already. Or bring me a verse that suggests otherwise to you, and i will tell you what i think of it, but that never hardly works, either.

Just seek God and believe what you like ok. You will find what you seek. Keep knocking, and it will be opened. If you are convinced now that hell is some future place with actual fire in it, then fine, so be it. Later, you might come to feel differently.

I do not believe in the rapture either, Bbyrd, but as far as Christ being in heaven, that is true and the bible explicitly says so. Mark 16:19, Psalms 110:1 , Ephesians 1:20 , 1 Peter 3:22, just to name a few.

and i am not disagreeing with the verses, understand; i am disputing that heaven is some place, where Christ currently is, when the kingdom has come very near to us, and you are the Body of Christ, and heaven is wherever Christ is. There is no "place" called heaven, ok? Our tendency to understand spiritual things literally is being used against us, and so those verses are made to seem as if Christ is some"where" else, when "where" does not even apply.

So yes, Christ is in heaven, certainly; and you are the Body of Christ, and you have His Spirit available to you, right here, right now, and you can meet Him in the Air, whenever you are ready, don't find love until you are ready, and only God knows when this time will be, of course, because it is different for everyone, when it is they will find Word, or even if they will find It.

"Now concerning that day and hour no one knows--neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son--except the Father only."

Young women of Jerusalem, I charge you: do not stir up or awaken love until the appropriate time.

Love's flames are fiery flames-- the fiercest of all.

(see why we never hear sermons from Song of Songs, lol; and why no one ever quotes from It)

how do we meet God in the air?

well, i guess that manifests differently for everyone, for me it came about by first understanding that the Bible is not the Word, which took awhile, and even required like a mourning period of sorts, because i didn't really understand, i thought i had lost God, of course, which i had, in a very real sense, lost my concept of God, and i even kept a link to the thread where i was insisting that the Bible was the Word, and then initially recognized that It was not, in case i woke up the next day and forgot or something, lol...

So then if the Book is not the Word, then something must be, so then you go and Bible search all of the definitions for Word, all of the places where Word is made equal to something else, which is kind of a pain, because we have the term "words" also, and the Book, being God~Breathed, is full of words from God, too, so, you end up with a pretty short list, and they happen to be all of the things that Christians dispute the definitions of, too, in some manner or other; God, Christ, and Gospel, plus Dabhar, Pneuma, and Breath, which lead you, hopefully, to a fuller understanding of "Air" there, which is a different word, a physical word, but is nonetheless an exact description of how and where you will meet Him, right in the air that you breath, even if Pneuma and Breath and Dabhar do not physically result in the actual Air moving, the spiritual point is hopefully made.

You meet Him in the Air when you see that Word is God, and Word is very near to you, it is the voice on one shoulder, perhaps, or whatever allegory you wish to use to imply that you have access to Word, right from God, even if other people might convince you that no, you are wrong, and it is ok to do whatever, commit some atrocity, send Jews to camps, despite your misgivings on the matter, perhaps, as an example, meaning that satan and your peers are going to be doing their best to persuade you of the inaccuracy of what is becoming increasingly obvious to you, it is a process, and a battle, ok. And it starts with recognizing that anyone who assures you that the Bible is the Word is not telling you the truth, even if they are not meaning to be lying to you. At least this was my path.

You might read this guy, i don't agree with his future divinations much, and believe that this all happens in the now, "Understand I AM," but he keeps that pretty light, and after all even i can agree that tomorrow will be different than today, and i don't know everything anyway. I just grabbed this link, never heard of him before; and you would likely do better to find your own link, be led by the Spirit to one, iow.

http://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/fare ... e-rapture/

Third, Paul conjures up images of an emperor visiting a colony or province. The citizens go out to meet him in open country and then escort him into the city. Paul’s image of the people “meeting the Lord in the air” should be read with the assumption that the people will immediately turn around and lead the Lord back to the newly remade world.

and he makes some other good points, too, which might resonate with one, or not. I might should warn you that the more this becomes obvious, the more resistance you are going to get, and since you of course will not be able to keep this to yourself, you will be talking, to your peers, not realizing yet that you make this journey alone, i guess, and you cannot bring anyone with you, but you are going to try anyway, and let me tell you, that is not going to work out like you envision ok. Meaning, go do whatever you feel led to do, but see that when you are being led by the Breath, hot on your neck, now, little children and dogs will be your only friends, ok. You become a threat to people, whose god is the Bible.

...

bbyrd009 wrote:...

Best thing you've said since being here.

bbyrd009 wrote:Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

so exactly what is your interpretation of this verse?

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

so exactly what is your interpretation of this verse?

well, i would take it that Christ became manifest after the Holy Spirit came down, and Paul revealed the Body of Christ, which His repeated declarations of going to the Father (and not physically returning) in that chapter indicate.

15Everything the Father has is Mine. This is why I told you that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

so exactly what is your interpretation of this verse?

well, i would take it that Christ became manifest after the Holy Spirit came down, and Paul revealed the Body of Christ, which His repeated declarations of going to the Father (and not physically returning) in that chapter indicate.

15Everything the Father has is Mine. This is why I told you that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.

not my interpretation, but ok.

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

so exactly what is your interpretation of this verse?

well, i would take it that Christ became manifest after the Holy Spirit came down, and Paul revealed the Body of Christ, which His repeated declarations of going to the Father (and not physically returning) in that chapter indicate.

15Everything the Father has is Mine. This is why I told you that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.

not my interpretation, but ok.

well, He was being pretty cryptic there; there are likely deeper interpretations, ya. There's even the bit at the end there, where the Apostles are saying "now your talking clearly," where i get the distinct impression that He has just given them all the wrong impression or something? I haven't read it in MSG, that might clarify things, i dunno.