Evidence for God from Science

PaulSacramento wrote:Yep, all that has to be prophesied has been, with Revelation "closing the book" on that.
Personal revelations from the HS is what we have now, though I often wonder if any of those should be made public.
Probably not.
So all those "end of the world" prophets are false prophets.

And that's how we know Mohamed is a false prophet.

Byblos wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Yep, all that has to be prophesied has been, with Revelation "closing the book" on that.
Personal revelations from the HS is what we have now, though I often wonder if any of those should be made public.
Probably not.
So all those "end of the world" prophets are false prophets.

And that's how we know Mohamed is a false prophet.

And so many others.

As I have read, there are prophecies in the Bible that didn't happen so the prophets don't have a perfect score

BryanH wrote:As I have read, there are prophecies in the Bible that didn't happen so the prophets don't have a perfect score

Not sure which ones you mean...
Prophecies are warnings of what will happen IF things don't change.

Not sure which ones you mean...
Prophecies are warnings of what will happen IF things don't change.

I don't see all the prophecies having an "IF" so I don't get your point of view.

Example: Jesus could have been not sent IF people were more spiritual and God obedient. That's nice to know. Do you agree with that?

BryanH wrote:

Not sure which ones you mean...
Prophecies are warnings of what will happen IF things don't change.

I don't see all the prophecies having an "IF" so I don't get your point of view.

Example: Jesus could have been not sent IF people were more spiritual and God obedient. That's nice to know. Do you agree with that?

I am sure that If God and Jesus decided to save us another way, they could have, but for the time and for the people, THAT way was THE way.
What I meant was, taking Jesus' prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem as an example, if Israel had repented they would NOT have been destroyed by the Romans.

I am sure that If God and Jesus decided to save us another way, they could have, but for the time and for the people, THAT way was THE way.
What I meant was, taking Jesus' prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem as an example, if Israel had repented they would NOT have been destroyed by the Romans.

First of all, God and Jesus didn't decide anything together because Jesus didn't exist at that point in time.
Secondly, you are saying that the destruction of Jerusalem comes as a divine punishment. The Roman attack that concluded with the destruction of Jerusalem was caused by the fact that the Jews from Jerusalem rebelled against the Roman Empire mainly because of religious motives (so they were actually trying to protect the religion that gave birth to Christianity in the first place).

First of all, God and Jesus didn't decide anything together because Jesus didn't exist at that point in time.

John 8:58-59 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham [a]was born, I am.” 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.
They went to stone Jesus, because Jesus just pronounced himself as equal to God. The name God gives for Himself, is "I am that I am".

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

If you want to be honest, Jesus does claim to be God. So, either the Jesus in the bible is God, or he's a complete lunatic, not worthy of our worship. Jesus claiming to be God, kinda puts to rest the notion that He was just a good man, or just a prophet.

Bryan, here's a link that explains how the word translated to English as "begotten", doesn't mean, "created".
link

BryanH wrote:

I am sure that If God and Jesus decided to save us another way, they could have, but for the time and for the people, THAT way was THE way.
What I meant was, taking Jesus' prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem as an example, if Israel had repented they would NOT have been destroyed by the Romans.

First of all, God and Jesus didn't decide anything together because Jesus didn't exist at that point in time.
Secondly, you are saying that the destruction of Jerusalem comes as a divine punishment. The Roman attack that concluded with the destruction of Jerusalem was caused by the fact that the Jews from Jerusalem rebelled against the Roman Empire mainly because of religious motives (so they were actually trying to protect the religion that gave birth to Christianity in the first place).

Who said anything of divine punishment?
And their rebelion was a political one and Christ's warning to repent was a direct one in regards to the consequence of their sin, the sin in question being to rebel against Rome INSTEAD of putting their faith and trust in God, that God will free them in due course.
And what makes you think that there was a point in time (as we know it) in which The Son of God didn't exist?
Before the universe came to be ( and time came to be since time is dependent on a given reality, in our case ours), God, Christ and the HS were already in existence.

Before the universe came to be ( and time came to be since time is dependent on a given reality, in our case ours), God, Christ and the HS were already in existence.

Such a statement means that you support determinism and fatalism. Also this means that you have no choice about your future what so ever.

And their rebelion was a political one and Christ's warning to repent was a direct one in regards to the consequence of their sin, the sin in question being to rebel against Rome INSTEAD of putting their faith and trust in God, that God will free them in due course.

Same as above. People are mindless beings that need God's "help" to make a choice about their own freedom.

Before the universe came to be ( and time came to be since time is dependent on a given reality, in our case ours), God, Christ and the HS were already in existence.



Such a statement means that you support determinism and fatalism. Also this means that you have no choice about your future what so ever.

Bryan, this makes no sense at all. I'm still scratching my head, after reading this. I believe God, in the 3 persons of the Trinity(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) exists eternally. So, before our universe was created, God existed. I have no idea why that means I must support determinism and fatalism. I make choices every minute of every day, that affect my future.

Such a statement means that you support determinism and fatalism. Also this means that you have no choice about your future what so ever.

Bryan, that is a natural objection, but not a new one. And one that is not unanswered.

So, let's look at it a little different. If the universe is not created, and is unguided, then you are left with true determinism and fatalism. In a material universe, everthing is determined. Your actions, the actions of Hitler, etc. are just the results of your biology. You are what your DNA tells you to be. And thus a 'relgious' person is also the result of such, and so what is the point in trying to convince anyone of anything?

I would assume that you believe that your skepticism is truly a result of who you are. In fact without having any knowledge of your physical make-up, I can deduce a lot about you from what you have shared on this forum. A remarkable testimony to your being and your mind. Since you've read a little Thomists' philosophy then it is important to know just what is meant by a first mover. That man, having 'being' in the image of God, is the first mover of himself. Jac, being a phd student in this stuff will be better able to explain. Maybe you guys can play nice, and he will offer some insight.