Book of Job

[Danieltwotwenty]

Would you like God to allow your loved ones to be killed so that he could make a point to people?

People die all the time, it is the natural order of things and yes God does allow it but he is more concerned with our eternal life than this temporal one (and so should we) .


Dan

[B. W.]

Would you like God to allow your loved ones to be killed so that he could make a point to people?

People die all the time, it is the natural order of things and yes God does allow it but he is more concerned with our eternal life than this temporal one (and so should we) .

Dan

Not sure how this response was missed on page 3 but it still applies to the points recently brought up…

...Bible does not mention their eternal state but since Job made an offering continually for his children Job 1:5 one can assume they made it to Paradise under the Old Testament covenant ways of atonement. So, mortal life cut short, but eternal life in paradise forever – hmmm who was really unjust? Not God, nor Job, but the Adversary proven unjust – he was uncovered.

God was exposing the Adversary and all the sons of pride in this book, as he does so even today as evidenced by the militant agnostic and atheist’s attempts to indict God as a moral monster, so that he doesn’t exist, or have others follow their lead to curse God.

Job paid the atonement price for his children but we today have Christ blood provide atonement for us who believe in Him…

Think about it…

Therefore, the question for us today and specifically to you Mag – do you place your faith totally upon the atoning working Christ did or not?

If one can’t trust the Lord in the greatest thing done for humanity in the here and now, how can one be trustworthy forever toward God eternally?

Isaiah 26:10 NKJV rings true...
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[MAGSolo]

Would you like God to allow your loved ones to be killed so that he could make a point to people?

People die all the time, it is the natural order of things and yes God does allow it but he is more concerned with our eternal life than this temporal one (and so should we) .


Dan

I dont see any evidence that he is so deeply concerned with our eternal lives.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Would you like God to allow your loved ones to be killed so that he could make a point to people?

People die all the time, it is the natural order of things and yes God does allow it but he is more concerned with our eternal life than this temporal one (and so should we) .


Dan

I dont see any evidence that he is so deeply concerned with our eternal lives.

He came here and died on a cross so that you may have your sins washed away so you may enter into eternity with him, I think that is clear evidence that God loves us because he made the ultimate sacrifice.


Dan

[PaulSacramento]

Would you like God to allow your loved ones to be killed so that he could make a point to people?

Nope, no one would.
Of course IF I had a different understanding of death ( As Job got in the end), how I feel about it would probably not be the same.
Small consolation for those that view death as final, of course, but we are NOT talking about those people but about Job and God.
If there is a God and IF the Job story was real, then we have to accept that God's ( and in the end, Job's) understanding of death is NOT the same as ours.
God doesn't view death as final, but simply a stage in existence that leads to a far better state than that which we leave behind.
It is conceivable that IF I understood and KNEW 100% that death was "irrelevant" that the death of my loved ones would NOT effect me the same way as it does now.

[MAGSolo]

Would you like God to allow your loved ones to be killed so that he could make a point to people?

People die all the time, it is the natural order of things and yes God does allow it but he is more concerned with our eternal life than this temporal one (and so should we) .


Dan

I dont see any evidence that he is so deeply concerned with our eternal lives.

He came here and died on a cross so that you may have your sins washed away so you may enter into eternity with him, I think that is clear evidence that God loves us because he made the ultimate sacrifice.


Dan

Dying and coming back to life three days later is not the ultimate sacrifice and besides, you have no evidence that it happened or that Jesus was God.

[PaulSacramento]

Dying and coming back to life three days later is not the ultimate sacrifice and besides, you have no evidence that it happened or that Jesus was God.

How do you KNOW that dying is not the ultimate sacrifice? Have you died?
How does His coming back negate all that happened? and if we take what was written ( that he came back) then we take the rest, that the scars remained.
As for evidence that it happened, well, for some there is even more than evidence, there is proof.
Of course You and so many others do NOT believe there is any evidence for it, regardless of what has been written but I assume that if Christ came to you in person you would believe, yes?
But for how long? and then you would doubt your very sanity or just chalk it up to "bad slice of pie" or some guilt complex or not even that, you'd just dismiss it because you'd convince yourself that "divine revelation" is NOT evidence ( much less proof) even if it happens to you.

[Byblos]

Dying and coming back to life three days later is not the ultimate sacrifice and besides, you have no evidence that it happened or that Jesus was God.

Do you know why God hardened Pharaoh's heart?

[MAGSolo]

Dying and coming back to life three days later is not the ultimate sacrifice and besides, you have no evidence that it happened or that Jesus was God.

How do you KNOW that dying is not the ultimate sacrifice? Have you died?
How does His coming back negate all that happened? and if we take what was written ( that he came back) then we take the rest, that the scars remained.
As for evidence that it happened, well, for some there is even more than evidence, there is proof.
Of course You and so many others do NOT believe there is any evidence for it, regardless of what has been written but I assume that if Christ came to you in person you would believe, yes?
But for how long? and then you would doubt your very sanity or just chalk it up to "bad slice of pie" or some guilt complex or not even that, you'd just dismiss it because you'd convince yourself that "divine revelation" is NOT evidence ( much less proof) even if it happens to you.

Giving up your life for three days is not a very impressive sacrifice.

[MAGSolo]

Dying and coming back to life three days later is not the ultimate sacrifice and besides, you have no evidence that it happened or that Jesus was God.

Do you know why God hardened Pharaoh's heart?

why?

[Danieltwotwenty]

Would you like God to allow your loved ones to be killed so that he could make a point to people?

People die all the time, it is the natural order of things and yes God does allow it but he is more concerned with our eternal life than this temporal one (and so should we) .


Dan

I dont see any evidence that he is so deeply concerned with our eternal lives.

He came here and died on a cross so that you may have your sins washed away so you may enter into eternity with him, I think that is clear evidence that God loves us because he made the ultimate sacrifice.


Dan

Dying and coming back to life three days later is not the ultimate sacrifice and besides, you have no evidence that it happened or that Jesus was God.

Mag he didn't just die for three days, he experienced what it was like to be eternally separated from the Father. This would be the most unimaginable torment and he would have suffered greatly, especially since his blood was innocent.

You keep arguing about God under the impression he exists, we know he exists and when we give you reasons why he does the things he does and you just say well I don't believe thats what happened.
If you don't believe or care why ask? You ask how can we believe in this God and we give you our opinion, if you are going to argue against the Christian God you need to accept that we believe that Jesus is God.

[Byblos]

And here's a point that often gets glossed over or never mentioned at all. Where is Jesus today? After the resurrection did he go back to things as they eternally were? No. He is STILL in a physical body. Think on this for a second, an eternal being chose to enter into his creation as a physical being and to never leave it again. His sacrifice didn't end after 3 days, it is still ongoing and will remain as such for eternity. If this is not the true ultimate sacrifice I don't know what is.

[PaulSacramento]

Dying and coming back to life three days later is not the ultimate sacrifice and besides, you have no evidence that it happened or that Jesus was God.

How do you KNOW that dying is not the ultimate sacrifice? Have you died?
How does His coming back negate all that happened? and if we take what was written ( that he came back) then we take the rest, that the scars remained.
As for evidence that it happened, well, for some there is even more than evidence, there is proof.
Of course You and so many others do NOT believe there is any evidence for it, regardless of what has been written but I assume that if Christ came to you in person you would believe, yes?
But for how long? and then you would doubt your very sanity or just chalk it up to "bad slice of pie" or some guilt complex or not even that, you'd just dismiss it because you'd convince yourself that "divine revelation" is NOT evidence ( much less proof) even if it happens to you.

Giving up your life for three days is not a very impressive sacrifice.

Christ gave up everything to be human AND died for Us and you don't think that is an impressive sacrifice?
Humans weren't able to give up in the most silly of sins, driven by base animal impulse ( and still aren't able to do that now) and yet, you view, The Son Of God, giving up His Nature of being God, giving up being WITH God, the total unity of love and purpose, becoming human and dying human, in pain and alone, you view this as "not very impressive"?

[Philip]

Christ gave up everything to be human AND died for Us and you don't think that is an impressive sacrifice?
Humans weren't able to give up in the most silly of sins, driven by base animal impulse ( and still aren't able to do that now) and yet, you view, The Son Of God, giving up His Nature of being God, giving up being WITH God, the total unity of love and purpose, becoming human and dying human, in pain and alone, you view this as "not very impressive"?

Yes, can you even imagine that you're the Lord of the Universe, the Creator of All, in Heaven, in constant bliss and completeness and surrounded by angels who constantly praise you - and yet He was willing to humble Himself by taking on human form and all of its frailties. He let puny men who HE created and loved enough to die for them, spit upon Him, mock Him, nearly beat Him to death, ALL before killing Him in a humiliating, most-barbaric fashion. Think of how sad Jesus must have been to know that those He had loved so much hated him so badly. Imagine how, knowing all along and fully, of the horrific, unimaginably brutal fate that awaited Him - and yet He remained faithful to the Father and out of love for those He died for. This is no god of mythology, created from the imaginations of men. As the Christian God is unlike any pagan god ever written about - as all of the pagan Gods are man-like in their supposed behaviors. Yahweh defies and spectacularly transcends all expectations - a GOD Who unimaginably suffers and agonizingly dies for His own creations. And if He did do it in the way that WE would have done it, well, it would look nothing like the God of the Bible. But isn't that what we should expect - that a REAL God would transcend our expectations of how WE think HE should operate?

[PaulSacramento]

Christ gave up everything to be human AND died for Us and you don't think that is an impressive sacrifice?
Humans weren't able to give up in the most silly of sins, driven by base animal impulse ( and still aren't able to do that now) and yet, you view, The Son Of God, giving up His Nature of being God, giving up being WITH God, the total unity of love and purpose, becoming human and dying human, in pain and alone, you view this as "not very impressive"?

Yes, can you even imagine that you're the Lord of the Universe, the Creator of All, in Heaven, in constant bliss and completeness and surrounded by angels who constantly praise you - and yet He was willing to humble Himself by taking on human form and all of its frailties. He let puny men who HE created and loved enough to die for them, spit upon Him, mock Him, nearly beat Him to death, ALL before killing Him in a humiliating, most-barbaric fashion. Think of how sad Jesus must have been to know that those He had loved so much hated him so badly. Imagine how, knowing all along and fully, of the horrific, unimaginably brutal fate that awaited Him - and yet He remained faithful to the Father and out of love for those He died for. This is no god of mythology, created from the imaginations of men. As the Christian God is unlike any pagan god ever written about - as all of the pagan Gods are man-like in their supposed behaviors. Yahweh defies and spectacularly transcends all expectations - a GOD Who unimaginably suffers and agonizingly dies for His own creations. And if He did do it in the way that WE would have done it, well, it would look nothing like the God of the Bible. But isn't that what we should expect - that a REAL God would transcend our expectations of how WE think HE should operate?

You hit the nail on the head, NO God of "human imagination" of that time would do such a thing, it was simply inconceivable for Jews and Pagans alike to believe in a God like that, much less "make one up" to convert people based on that highly objectionable scenario.