Evidence for God from Science

Don't go putting words in my mouth, now. I dont think American decline is due to direct punishment by God. That's ridiculous. What I mean is that there are natural consequences to sin. Yes, slavery was a horrible evil in this country-- and it had horrible consequences for our country that reverberate to this day. As it is, it nearly destroyed the country altogether. No, I don't think there was ever a golden age of when the U.S. was the new Eden. This is a fallen world and our country is no exception. But I don't think it's controversial to say that, in many ways, our culture has been slowly pushing God out of its collective consciousness for some time now. It's not simply that we have sin, it's that we we deny there is such a thing at all. Humanities and social science departments have been filled with professors who deny various aspects of truth. We Christians know as well as anyone how post-modernism has taken hold in our society. Do we suppose now that ideas don't have consequences?

EDIT: So as to not seem too one-sided, let me note that in response to these trends, many of those who grasp to the church cling to biblical legalism, condemning harshly any sin by which they themselves are never tempted, using the word of God as a cudgel instead of sharing it's message of love, too often showing indifference to the poor and hatred to the lost. And it shames me to say that I am frequently one of these modern philistines.

Ivellious wrote:I didn't want to say that we have no issues, or that they are better/worse than before. I just get so sick of people saying that "the time we live in now is having SO many more problems, and God is punishing us SO badly for them. We need to get back to the good old days when everyone was a perfect Christian and God loved us." I just think it's such an exaggeration to say that we are so much more immoral and that God never had any reasons to punish us before. It's just frustrating. I'm not denying problems in our ociety now, I'm just saying that it's short-sighted to pretend that we've always had better values than now.

History shows and proves - there were no good old days when all were perfect Christians. Read the history of the social climate around the time of the First and Second Great Awakening and for that matter all the great revival s that came after. Times became nasty and vile - revival came - house got in order - bit later people turned away and the nation sank back into the abyss. This trend was the same for every nation of the West. What Jesus said in John 3 is true - human beings love darkness more than light. That is the constant flow of the majority.

When Christians lose their salt and shield their lamps - then this nation is indeed doomed to a new brand of darkness... The lefts progressive drum beat is to cause this to happen. Our backs are to the wall - fight we must, die we must, but many of us will not stop being the salt tossed into the infected skin of human twistedness and we will not stop shining our lights. In the 1st century, we were feed to the lions, slaughtered in the arenas, butchered in the streets, yet Christ overcame. We know where we will reside for eternity and with whom. Buy our deaths, mocking, brow beatings, people hijacking Christianity for political expedience, threatening, name calling, demands that we shut up do prove that men love darkness more than light and disposes the notion of moral fairness the foes of Christ claim to have. Revelation 22:20 will happen for a reason...

The great falling away occurs firsts and spoken of in the first 3 chapters of Revelation...
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Off the Press: The people of the good State of Louisiana are petitioning the Federal Government to peacefully withdraw from the Union and form its own Government. See Below -

--Peacefully grant the State of Louisiana to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.

As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government..."

Created: Nov 07, 2012—

White House Link

So is this the new norm?

I wonder if Texas will follow suite and who else?

50 percent of the American People are angry folks...
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B. W. wrote:So is this the new norm?

Don't worry about it. There has been a secessionist movement in Vermont for many years and nothing has ever come of it except a few bumper stickers and a little-read newspaper.

FL

B. W. wrote:Off the Press: The people of the good State of Louisiana are petitioning the Federal Government to peacefully withdraw from the Union and form its own Government. See Below -

--Peacefully grant the State of Louisiana to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.

As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government..."

Created: Nov 07, 2012—

White House Link

So is this the new norm?

I wonder if Texas will follow suite and who else?

50 percent of the American People are angry folks...
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Good luck with that, Louisiana. If Louisiana became its own country, one more hurricane like Katrina would have them begging to rejoin the Union.

Take a look at this 18 more states filing for petitions to secede from the union…

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/1 ... ded/25594/

For many, this will be considered a joke or silly protest but is it really?

People are really angry out there folk. This anger has been building for years from the progressive left’s tactical use of creating division, strife, envy, and demonizing all opponents of their liberal agenda. Obama continues class warfare stratagem as evidence of this. The left are telling 50 percent of the country that they are irrelevant, outdated, insignificant, and outnumbered so better submit kowtowing in order to please the new benevolent aristocracy.

This provokes the don’t-tread-on-me US Constitutionalist who actually understands the assault by the fed government on liberty. Liberal progressives love to cite that taxes are not theft but the founders of the USA in 1776 defined that taxation without representation is tyranny and guess what happened?

Obama Care is a Tax imposed on the country without proper representation. Recall, the republicans were left out altogether? Taxation without representation is tyranny!

Look, the class warfare the left employs to deceive the masses needs to stop.

This has nothing to do about taxing rich people who are now defined as those making 250,000 thousand yearly (don’t forget the dollar de-valuation so that rich class is now lower dollarwise).

It has to do with demonizing half the country as ignoramus’ that need to convert to the new Democratic Party aristocracy and their benevolent plantation mentality they desire hold over all aspects of life of every American.

The tactics used by them are in direct violation of the bible – James 3:14, 15, 16 – James 4:4, 7. Exodus 20:15 because they create division based on strife and class envy, greed – how is that just?

To say the progressive left’s programs are sanctioned by Jesus for the cause of social justice are wrong. Jesus’ focus for us was to Love God first and others next – not Love and trust the Government first and let the Government love your neighbor for you and you be the neighbor too.

This maybe just a protest but methinks personally - NOT

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B. W. You need to get on the Obama bandwagon before it's too late.

9000 signatures on a petition in Louisiana is nothing, B.W., and it is meaningless. I bet most of those signatures are from fruitcakes as well.

In any event, secession can be good! Ask 1/137: her country split in two in 1990 and the world hasn't collapsed. And what are now Norway, Sweden and Denmark used to be one country. The last split occured in 1905 and these three are presently #1, #2 and #3 in terms of prosperity and quality of life in the world.

Maybe Louisiana could be kicked out of the Union...

FL

I have a feeling the signatures on those petitions are people who have confederate flags on their bumper stickers if you catch my drift...

The fear surrounding the reelection of the president is dumbfounding. When did people become so quick to irrationally jump the gun?

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:9000 signatures on a petition in Louisiana is nothing, B.W., and it is meaningless. I bet most of those signatures are from fruitcakes as well.

In any event, secession can be good! Ask 1/137: her country split in two in 1990 and the world hasn't collapsed. And what are now Norway, Sweden and Denmark used to be one country. The last split occured in 1905 and these three are presently #1, #2 and #3 in terms of prosperity and quality of life in the world.

Maybe Louisiana could be kicked out of the Union...

FL

Whoa, I think you should take a chill pill, man. And I take it you're against secession, then? Why? If may I ask.

Actually, I'll ask everyone. Why (if you ARE against it) are you against secession?

RickD wrote:B. W. You need to get on the Obama bandwagon before it's too late.

Just report'n it comrade Rick...



Seriously - the petition signatures need to be from registered voters citizens of ones own home state. Looks like various people from other states are signing in the wrong state petition so one needs three times the 24,000 limit for petition to be verifiable.

The fact of this happening now is very unusual because it has not happened on this scale since 1860. I tell you, people are angry and tired of being pushed around... As for people carry'n rebel flags - no don't agree with that stereotype - simply put, these are p-o'd Americans. As for Obama, for these Americans they are tired of being told - that if it looks like a Duck, and quacks like a Duck, and walks like a Duck - pay no attention it is not a Duck. These people know a real duck when the see one.

Well we shall see what we shall see - pay no attention move on - nothing happening here - life will go on as the last four years and let's all just hope the administration actually will do right for its citizens for a change. FORWARD !!! Do not ask forward to where - maybe toward that fundamentaling changing America thingy - but dare not ask change into what - just forward!!!! Move along pay no attention to the last four years - nothing to see - it is not a duck...

That's how many Americans see it - just report'n comrade Rick...
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Paul, the problem with that poll, as with many others, is the sample size. Approximately 58,783,137 people voted for Romney. That poll is less that .06 % of the total votes for Romney. Not less than 6%. Less that .06 %. That means out of every 10,000 people that voted for Romney, less that 6 people are represented in that poll. That's >6 of 10,000.

Stygian wrote: Whoa, I think you should take a chill pill, man. And I take it you're against secession, then? Why? If may I ask.

Actually, I'll ask everyone. Why (if you ARE against it) are you against secession?

Well I value the USA being in one piece and don't think the Confederate States of America was such a good idea the first time around for one.
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. People defending the idea of states seceding? I managed to survive the last four years under Obama and I think most of you have too.

Obama hasn't been THAT radical of a president. If states want to secede, it's not so much that Obama has divided this country so much as certain parts of this country are filled with irrational lunatics. If you don't like his policies, fine. But don't pretend like you represent the "real" America for thinking so.

I made this post on my facebook and got a lot of traffic on it. Put up her for any who are interested.

I've purposely not made any strong post-political posts because I have no desire to be seen as piling on or seeking to gloat. Frankly, while I made a stand that was no doubt unpopular with several of my friends, I'm under no illusions that the path ahead is easy.

Something that I think needs to be said however, and I say this with sincere desire to be positive and encouraging. Many Christians have allowed their political ideology to become a filter now, not only to how they interpret facts, but it's becoming clear that its dictating how we determine what is fact and what is not.

Regardless of what you believe politically and how it ties to your religious views, it's important that Christians be realistic and intelligent people and not get caught into populist movements that begin to breed their own culture, isolate from the rest of the nation and world, and eventually to only rely upon telling themselves the same things over and over until it becomes established fact in their minds and they will not examine or consider anything else. If we do that (and yes I'm including myself in this) we will damage the most important message that we, if we are followers of Christ, want to promote. This can happen on both the "liberal" or the "conservative" side but much of what I have to say will apply toward those on the conservative side. If you want to respond with admonitions toward me and those of a more independent or liberal bent, that's fine. All I ask is that everyone consider this and hopefully learn from it.

Barak Obama really did win the election and it wasn't because of voter fraud.

Barak Obama was born in Hawaii and is an American Citizen.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up numbers to influence an election.

Polls that showed Obama would likely win the election were not skewed to disproportionately represent democrats.

Nate Silver at the New York Times who predicted all 50 states accurately was not attempting to make up numbers to hurt conservatives.

Beghazi was an attack on us. If things were not handled as well as they should have been, then that will come out and be addressed. Using it politically in the manner it was didn't help the conservative cause and in the end may end up helping the very enemies we're supposed to as a nation work together to discourage.

Moderate reforms of insurance and banking are not socialism or communist plots.

Living on welfare and foodstamps is not glamorous or easy. If you think it is, try it. Anecdotal hearsay stories we tell or others tell to assure us of the "welfare queens" out there who are gaming the system by having children so they can drive Cadillacs and carry expensive phones are not reality. They are stereotypes that play to our own desire to believe that we're the real victims because we pay taxes.

Taxes are not stealing.

The Government is not a separate institution that we are powerless to change nor is it made up of people other than us.

Part of addressing real issues and problems includes living in reality and being willing to accept difficult information even when we don't like it or want to deal with it. Choosing news sources by which ones tell us what we want to hear may be emotionally comforting or it may even allow us to get angry about things that push our buttons, but if that is all we listen to or look at, then we cease to be able to think about the reality around us and to be able to plan in a way that realistically addresses it.

I made some people angry by making some projections about how things were going to turn out in this election. I was and still am prepared to evaluate where my information comes from and what I rely upon. I can be and often am wrong in my opinions or facts. I try to own it when I am, learn from it, adjust and then move on. As it turns out, learning to think and examine and compare sources led me in this instance to have been pretty close to reality at least as far as the results came out. That doesn't mean my politics are right on everything and that i won't still be proven wrong on some things. If I am, then so be it. I'll try to learn and adjust and move on.

Christians can differ internally on issues here and those are good questions and discussions to have. A large portion of Christianity was very vocal and has gotten caught into the issues referenced above. Many people who might otherwise be open to considering Christ look at the public face of Christian Evangelicalism and see these issues and it makes their message suspect.

I'm not saying this to suggest you change your political convictions. People of good will who love one another can disagree and there's nothing wrong. Please consider the methods, where you get your information, and what the priorities are in how we want to see Christ presented to our world.