Evidence for God from Science

Oldman,

Please note, none of the moderators are holding conspiracy meetings planning to crucify you, nor entrap you, therefore, your derogatory comments and false accusations toward us and members is not fitting speech and attitude for a true believer of Jesus Christ to be engaged in. Such speech as this is an pseudo attempt to play act that you are jesus being confronted by those who sought his demise. No one here is seeking your demise. Therefore, you have judged wrongly many folks here.

Such speech clearly indicated that you are under the influence of spirit guides and you have already identified many. You need help. Many of us are actually trying to help you expunge these from your life and return to the true Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, risen from the dead, who wrote our names in the book of life and grants us the power and authority to trample on all the works of the enemy as Jesus declared in Luke 10:18, 19, 20.

Would you like to go this route?

You came here to this forum and from your recent words indicate that you are on some sort of quest to infect others with a doctrine that - one – does not honor Jesus Christ in your conduct and words – two does not line up with what the bible teaches – three – seeking to persuade people to become infected as you currently are - four – presenting another jesus and spirits that do not line up with what the bible actually reveals as the real deal. Five – does not agree with the kind of love Jesus mentions as having (your concept of love is storge) – Six – denial of form of the Godhead as the bible actually teaches – seven - presenting errors regarding what spirit is and means. I can go on, but will spare you.

You have what is known as spirit guides infecting your life and thoughts. The use of hallucinogenic drugs opens the doors for this

The Greek word and words for this type of thing as used in the LXX and NT is the word pharmakeía, pharmakós, and pharmakoú which Vines dictionary of NT words defines as:

Vines NT Dictionary wrote:
1. pharmakia (or —eia) (5331) (Eng., "pharmacy," etc.) primarily signified "the use of medicine, drugs, spells"; then, "poisoning"; then, "sorcery," Gal 5:20, RV, "sorcery" (KJV, "witchcraft"), mentioned as one of "the works of the flesh." See also Rev 9:21; Rev 18:23. In the Sept., Exo 7:11, Exo 7:22; Exo 8:7, Exo 8:18; Isa 47:9, Isa 47:12.

In "sorcery," the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc., professedly designed to keep the applicant or patient from the attention and power of demons, but actually to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer.

2. pharmakos ( 5333), an adjective signifying "devoted to magical arts," is used as a noun, "a sorcerer," especially one who uses drugs, potions, spells, enchantments, Rev 21:8, in the best texts (some have pharmakeus), and Rev 22:15

Cannabis is classed as a mild hallucinogenic drug and your continued use can open the door to spirit guides and the bible clearly warns NOT TO DO THIS.

These guides may have brought you here to this forum, or the real you brought you and is seeking release from these guides. Right now, you may be feeling very agitated and begin cursing us here. That is common with spirit guides. So threats about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit against those who oppose you will not work here. That is the god spirit guide you have talking – not the real you. So in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth that god spirit guide be bound to silence and the real oldman come forth in Jesus name.

Do you want help?

If you do, please find a real true bible believing church to attend, plug into it, attend bible study group, repent of cannabis use, get counseling and Holy Ghost anointed prayer to expunge these guides and their long term effects off you so you can find the True Rest Jesus mentions in Matthew 11:28, 29, 30 which comes from the true Christ Yeshua and not something forbidden by the LORD like cannabis’ pharmakia.

I will ask those following this thread to begin praying for you by binding (tying up) the spirit guides by the authority Jesus grants his disciples so the real you can decide what the real you wants Jesus to do for you. The choice is yours to make – the real oldman…

Have a nice day…
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I have faith in the God of reason, to believe in Him is to believe in reason. By reason alone He exists, by reason He is our only reasonable hope.

None are so lost as those who ignore and reject reason.



From the Father and the Son comes their perfect and eternal love for each other. Their love is their endless joy in their pure and perfect caring, sharing and giving to each other all that they are and all that they care to create. The Son came from the Father in eternity before creation began and He naturally looks up to His Father, but without the Father's only eternal child there would be no possibility for an eternal God known as "love", "God is love", as Scripture clearly proclaims, and this love cannot exist with one person alone. This love, this God called love, needs at least two free thinking reasoning minds, and through the eternal Son the Father became the eternal giver of joy in perfect caring and sharing, and through the eternal Father His Son became the eternal receiver and giver of this same Spirit. Without the eternal Son there would be no such Spirit of pure and perfect eternal love; and it is this eternal Spirit that comes through the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son, all creation is governed. This Spirit naturally embraces all knowledge and wisdom and would mean nothing without being the heart or the innermost ruling character of a person.

The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. This Spirit is the heart of God's personality. This Spirit is what governs His reasoning and all creation. Only the Spirit that has proved faithful to love us unto death will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, this is obvious to all who can see.

All who are given faith in this Spirit will naturally have faith in the Son. All who are of God have faith in this Spirit. Whoever will not have faith in this Spirit will remain a liar.

God alone is “the greatest” in the kingdom of heaven and it has been made very clear in Scripture that the Spirit of God is being revealed (albeit for too short a time) in little children who are believing in Jesus, (Matthew 18:1–5 NIV, Mark 9:33-37, Luke 9:46-48). It has also been made very clear that those who know this Spirit and seek to slander, corrupt, torment or destroy this Spirit will never be saved for there is nothing left to save them.

Matthew 18:6-7 explains, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offences! For offences must come, but woe to that man by whom the offence comes!

Matthew 12:31-32 explains, "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come".



The Spirit that came through the Father and the Son was also given to the angels who came after, and then eventually to the first man Adam. But through pride and a natural desire to experience the fascinating unknown the father of evil was born: Self control was abandoned when an irrational extreme pleasure was discovered in rebelling against the Spirit of truth. This Spirit then was confounded and put to death not only in the one now called Satan, but also in many angels who followed him. Adam's perfect Spirit also died the moment he gave in to Satan's temptation and valued his desire to know evil above his Father's warning. But by the grace of God the Spirit of truth is being made alive in man again, and evil is being defeated:

The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen and gives new life by transforming our corrupt and deceitful spirit of pride and death back into one of humility and perfect holiness, just as Adam and Eve were before the Spirit of truth in them was confounded and corrupted into something evil by their desire to know evil. The Father's Spirit therefore will live in all His chosen ones and ultimately make their unique personalities perfect in knowledge, wisdom and love forever, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit will never be broken again:

After evil has been allowed to reach it's climax on earth and after the final judgement when all the unsaved have been justly cast into the lake of fire, all creation will forever know the undeniable reality of where the insane road of pride and rebellion leads. No free and perfect mind of reason therefore, as Satan and his angels once had, will ever want to go that way and threaten creation again.



When the Son of God suffered and died for us taking our punishment He also revealed His self sacrificing Spirit of perfect love: faithful to love unto death and the only way to overcome our old corrupt spirit of lies and delusion. By His finished work He has revealed in full the essence and character of His Spirit that we must have faith in if we care to be saved. Through His finished work His Spirit and way of salvation is now known. But if we refuse to forsake our old offensive and corrupt spirit and see it dead when it rears its ugly head then our faith is dead, we are not being governed by the Holy Spirit and neither are we being made worthy to live with God forever:

“For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it” (Matthew 16:25).

He poured out His life for us and we will be ready to do the same for His sake if we are born again. And what is His “sake” if it is not the glory of His love and endless joy in free and endless creation? We who have a living faith in Him will see our old corrupt selves dead and see His promised paradise where the free and infinite imagination of the Spirit of truth is the infinite realm of everything. We who are being saved will see and know the endless joy in free and endless creation.



Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love us unto death, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by the Lord Jesus and by His true followers. This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers who witnessed the ministry and finished work of Jesus were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even tortured to death rather than live a lie and deny who they believed in or what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine, the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ. Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit lives on in all His true followers still.

By reason, this Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth, simply because there is no reasonable alternative in which we all can trust.








“In the beginning was the Word” (In the beginning the eternal Son existed only in the eternal thoughts of the Father as a spiritual embryo.) “and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (This Word, this embryo became a facsimile of the Father, not a creation as such but another part of the Father. This 2nd mind became another person like the Father, the Father's Son before creation began.) “He was with God in the beginning. All things were made through Him,” (through the Father and the Son's pure and perfect love for each other they began creating everything whilst giving that love to all who they created.) “without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1:1-3.

As the eternal Son existed and grew within the eternal Father before creation began, so the eternal Spirit of truth existed and grew with the Son in the eternal Father also.

To deny the Son came from His Father by the will of His Father in eternity before creation began, as false teachers often do, is to deny the true meaning of the words “Father” and “Son” that were used by God to describe the 1st and 2nd person in the Godhead.

By denying the Son came from His Father before creation began, false teachers seek to lead others to deny the bond of perfect love that only a perfect Father and Son can give to each other.

False teachers seek to lead men to ignore and reject the unique Father and Son relationship that gave us the Spirit of truth.

The 1st and 2nd person of the Godhead were not revealed to us as “Father” and “Son” for nothing, as many false teachers would have us believe.


None are so blind as those who cannot see reason.

oldman. the Lord will never deny his word not go against what he says as it is written...

Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Mal 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change...

Isa 55:11- So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. NKJV

The Lord fobids the practice of using known hallucinogenic drugs for increased spirituality. The use of hallucinogenic drugs opens the doors for for false gospel and spirit guides and that is why the Lord forbids the use of pharmakeía, pharmakós, pharmakoú. Which recall - Vines dictionary of NT words defines as:

Vines NT Dictionary wrote wrote:
1. pharmakia (or —eia) (5331) (Eng., "pharmacy," etc.) primarily signified "the use of medicine, drugs, spells"; then, "poisoning"; then, "sorcery," Gal 5:20, RV, "sorcery" (KJV, "witchcraft"), mentioned as one of "the works of the flesh." See also Rev 9:21; Rev 18:23. In the Sept., Exo 7:11, Exo 7:22; Exo 8:7, Exo 8:18; Isa 47:9, Isa 47:12.

In "sorcery," the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc., professedly designed to keep the applicant or patient from the attention and power of demons, but actually to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer.

2. pharmakos ( 5333), an adjective signifying "devoted to magical arts," is used as a noun, "a sorcerer," especially one who uses drugs, potions, spells, enchantments, Rev 21:8, in the best texts (some have pharmakeus), and Rev 22:15

Cannabis is classed as a mild hallucinogenic drug and your continued use can open the door to spirit guides and the bible clearly warns NOT TO DO THIS. Now for you to claim that the True LORD led you to this practice - well makes God violate his own word. Therefore, you are under the influence of spirit guides and not the one and only Holy Spirit of God who changes not nor would make an exception to violate his own commands regarding your spiritual cannabis use...

In fact, your answer is from them and not the real you.

Again as I said earlier:

Oldman,

Please note, none of the moderators are holding conspiracy meetings planning to crucify you, nor entrap you, therefore, your derogatory comments and false accusations toward us and members is not fitting speech and attitude for a true believer of Jesus Christ to be engaged in. Such speech as this is an pseudo attempt to play act that you are jesus being confronted by those who sought his demise. No one here is seeking your demise. Therefore, you have judged wrongly many folks here.

Such speech clearly indicated that you are under the influence of spirit guides and you have already identified many. You need help. Many of us are actually trying to help you expunge these from your life and return to the true Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, risen from the dead, who wrote our names in the book of life and grants us the power and authority to trample on all the works of the enemy as Jesus declared in Luke 10:18, 19, 20.

Would you like to go this route?

You came here to this forum and from your recent words indicate that you are on some sort of quest to infect others with a doctrine that - one – does not honor Jesus Christ in your conduct and words – two does not line up with what the bible teaches – three – seeking to persuade people to become infected as you currently are - four – presenting another jesus and spirits that do not line up with what the bible actually reveals as the real deal. Five – does not agree with the kind of love Jesus mentions as having (your concept of love is storge) – Six – denial of form of the Godhead as the bible actually teaches – seven - presenting errors regarding what spirit is and means. I can go on, but will spare you.

These guides may have brought you here to this forum, or the real you brought you and is seeking release from these guides. Right now, you may be feeling very agitated and begin cursing us here. That is common with spirit guides. So threats about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit against those who oppose you will not work here. That is the god spirit guide you have talking – not the real you. So in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth that god spirit guide be bound to silence and the real oldman come forth in Jesus name.

Do you want help?
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B. W. wrote:oldman. the Lord will never deny his word not go against what he says as it is written...

Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Mal 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change...

Isa 55:11- So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. NKJV

The Lord fobids the practice of using known hallucinogenic drugs for increased spirituality.

I must reply to this and put the record straight.

First things first then: cannabis does cause mild hallucinations and paranoia, but only when it is abused and too much is used. The same goes for alcohol, although large quantities would be needed to see things that aren't really there.

Secondly, God reveals Himself to whoever He so wills, whenever He so wills, in whatever measure He so wills, irrespective of the culture a person happens to be involved in at the time.

Thirdly, I have never claimed cannabis must be used in order to have a saving knowledge of God. What I remember happening is that sometime in the early part of 1986, when deeply under the influence of cannabis, I came to realise how lost I was and that I did not know who or what to believe in. Even when the effects of cannabis had worn off I could still see how hopelessly lost and double minded I was. A determination then started growing within me to look and find out for myself whether or not the God I was told to believe in when I was a child really existed. It was this growing determination that eventually moved me to find my old Gideon's Bible given to me when I left school and to start reading the Gospel of Matthew from the beginning through to the end. I decided if this Christian God was real then I would find Him there, and if there was no convincing evidence of Him, there would be no such God. As I recall, this search got under way some time in the spring or summer of 1986, and starting very slowly I would read just a few verses at a time with days and often weeks passing between each reading. As the months went by and the more I read, the more I found myself becoming fascinated by it, not least because I believed I was sensing something of God, more so when I studied it under the influence of cannabis. By the time I had finished it in late January 1987, even though I still had some very hard lessons to learn about my deceiving fallen nature, I had become convinced of the reality of God. From that time on I have remained convinced of this reality whether under the influence of cannabis or not under the influence of cannabis.

I do not believe cannabis is needed to have a saving knowledge of God. I do however believe that God must have ultimately led me to use cannabis for He is ultimately sovereign over all and I know that during and after using cannabis (only as I have described in my opening post http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 19&t=38838 ) I am able to reason and perceive more, this is a fact of life I cannot ignore. Having said that though, I also know the time must be fast approaching when cannabis will no longer be needed to enhance my thought process: I will be filled with God when my thoughts are governed entirely by the only Spirit of truth and reason. Then I will be perfect like the God of reason and truth is perfect, He does not need cannabis in order to see and perceive more freely and more clearly, and neither shall I.

Oldman wrote:
... I do however believe that God must have ultimately led me to use cannabis...

Sure. Ok. Now you are justifying something harmful and illegal, by saying God led you to do it.

Oldman,

You need to get back to reality, and get your head out of the funny brownies.

Cannabis does causes mild or moderate hallucinations...

What is a hallucination but an illusion. therefore oldman, you studied the bible under the influence of cannabis - then wouldn't stand to reason that your interpretive study of the bible would then be based upon illusion as well?
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Cannabis use alters Brain regions states new clinical findings...

Read Here:

http://health.msn.co.nz/healthnews/8831 ... ions-study

Mind altering candy... best to stay away from it and not use it unless for legitimate medical use for cancer care...
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Where there is no freedom of speech freedom will not survive

Oldman,

This is not your personal blog.

You've posted the same stuff ad nauseum. You are posting a different gospel. If you post it again it will be deleted again.

RickD wrote:Oldman,

This is not your personal blog.

I never said or believed it was. What I did believe is that this forum was, amongst other things, to be used for discussing “the nature of truth and reality”, and “justification of beliefs” in order that the truth can be revealed more clearly.

RickD wrote:You've posted the same stuff ad nauseum.

Rick, I know I have a tendency to repeat myself but do you honestly find these words so offensive?

“The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. This Spirit is the heart of God's personality. This Spirit is what governs His reasoning and all creation. Only the Spirit that has proved faithful to love us unto death will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, this is obvious to all who can see.”

RickD wrote:You are posting a different gospel.

I believe in the good news that we are saved by faith alone in the finished work of the Lord Jesus. Through His finished work His Spirit and way of salvation can now be understood. I also believe that if our faith is living and true we will forsake our old offensive and corrupt spirit and see it dead when it rears its ugly head.

The Lord Jesus told us, “For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it” (Matthew 16:25).

He poured out His life for us and we will be ready to do the same for His sake if we are born again.

If you find this so offensive that you must delete it then I can only say again, where there is no freedom of speech freedom will not survive.

If you want to discuss, then, let's look at your quotes again in light of what you might really be conveying as I inserted in parentheses explanations you alluded too in your vast repeating of the same things over and over again:

oldman wrote: I never said or believed it was. What I did believe is that this forum was, amongst other things, to be used for discussing “the nature of truth (Divine Mind / Universal Principle) and reality (spiritual)”, and “justification of beliefs” (exposing error of the the material world) in order that the truth (Divine Mind of the Universe illumination) can be revealed more clearly (Material world is error and illusion as per Gnostic principles).

“The finished work of Jesus (The Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind) Christ (mere anointing of son ship for the divine manifestation of Divine mind/universal principle, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate material error) reveals in full His Spirit (Christian Science) faithful to love unto death. This Spirit (Christian Science) is the heart of God's (Father/Mother Divine Mind) personality. This Spirit (Christian Science) is what governs His reasoning and all creation. Only the Spirit (Christian Science) that has proved faithful to love us unto death will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, this is obvious to all who can see.”

I believe in the good news that we are saved (through re-forming ourselves manifesting Life, Truth, and Love as understood by Christian Science) by faith (correcting distortions of the material world) alone in the finished work of the Lord Jesus (A Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind). Through His finished work His Spirit (Christian Science) and way of salvation (re-forming ourselves by self works) can now be understood. I also believe that if our faith (correcting distortions of the material world) is living (confessing ie earning) and true (adhering to Gnostic truth) we will forsake our old offensive and corrupt spirit (illusions) and see it dead when it rears its ugly head.

The Lord Jesus (The Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind) told us, “For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it” (Matthew 16:25).

He poured out His life for us and we will be ready to do the same for His sake if we are born again (to Deny material reality as it is merely an illusion as death and sin are but mere illusions too).

If you find this so offensive that you must delete it then I can only say again, where there is no freedom of speech freedom will not survive.

It is not that we find this offensive but rather heretical and aberrant distortion of who the Historical biblical Jesus is and presenting a Gnostic jesus. Therefore, from all our prior conversations is how I derived to insert the explanations to your words so others can understand what you are saying.

Now, you may not be a real Christian Scientist but insert the word Gnosticism or Gnostic teachings in its place above and people should now understand that you really do present another gospel.

Lastly, cannabis use does cause harm to one's ability to reason so it would be best to avoid this substance for you own good...
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B. W. wrote:
It is not that we find this offensive but rather heretical and aberrant distortion of who the Historical biblical Jesus is and presenting a Gnostic jesus.

Do you see this as presenting a “Gnostic jesus” and a distortion of the the truth also?

Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love us unto death, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by the Lord Jesus and by His true followers. This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers who witnessed the ministry and finished work of Jesus were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even tortured to death rather than live a lie and deny who they believed in or what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine, the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ. Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit lives on in all His true followers still.

By reason, this Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth, simply because there is no reasonable alternative in which we all can trust.

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:
It is not that we find this offensive but rather heretical and aberrant distortion of who the Historical biblical Jesus is and presenting a Gnostic jesus.

Do you see this as presenting a “Gnostic jesus” and a distortion of the the truth also?

Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love us unto death, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by the Lord Jesus and by His true followers. This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers who witnessed the ministry and finished work of Jesus were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even tortured to death rather than live a lie and deny who they believed in or what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine, the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ. Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit lives on in all His true followers still.

By reason, this Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth, simply because there is no reasonable alternative in which we all can trust.

Yes I do, and when one adds in your versions and interpretations of certain words derived from your own writings here which meanings have been inserted in parenthesis, is indeed presenting a Gnostic jesus...

oldman wrote:Only the pure and faithful Spirit (Divine Science of universal mind) that is faithful to love us unto death, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us (Gnostics / Christian Scientist), such is the Spirit (Divine Science/Gnosticism) that is revealed by the Lord Jesus (The Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind) and by His true followers. This Jesus (The Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind) could not have lied because in His Spirit (Divine Science/Gnosticism from universal mind)there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers (Gnostics / Christian Scientist) who witnessed the ministry and finished work of Jesus (The Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind) were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even tortured to death rather than live a lie (Illusion of reality) and deny who they believed in (The Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind) or what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine (Divine Science), the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ (The Created being who existed in embryo in Divine Mind) . Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit (Divine Science of universal mind) lives on in all His true followers (Gnostics / Christian Scientist) still.

First off, the bible clearly teaches that it is Jesus who was faithful unto death as Heb 12:2 and Rev 1:5,6 reveals as does much of the New Testament clearly teach. No where does the bible say - the pure and faithful Spirit was faithful to love unto death. How can such a spirit actually die and pay for our sins? Are you aware how your very words end up make a mockery of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection?

You mentioned that the spirit will not deceive or offend any of us. You pit the words deceive against the word offend in order to hide the identity of the spirit whom you speak. The true third person of God's essence, the Holy Spirit, will tell the truth,that is true. However, the True Holy Spirit of the Godhead does indeed offend as it is written in John 16:7,8,9,10,11, Jude 1:14,15 and elsewhere reveals that God the Holy Spirit indeed offends by conviction, pricking ones conscience, offend folks for their sins and offences, etc. Therefore, the one whom you speak is not the True living Holy Spirit of the Godhead. What you are doing, most likely not aware of it until now, is that your doctrine seeks to pit God's own attributes against each other such as his love against offending.

Next is a fact read it: "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie..." 2 Th 2:11

Then add to this these verses: Isaiah 66:4 NKJV, Psalms 81:11-12, Psalms 109:17, Rom 1:21-25, Rom 1:28... God does indeed send delusions due to the sin within a persons heart in order to offend them and awake them to their sense, if they do not awaken, judgment comes. You said said God does not deceives (sends delusions), yet, the bible says He does. Why, to reveal truth in order to reveal the true state of a person's heart either sealing it for eternal punishment or coming to ones senses for His salvafic work. Again, your statements goes contrary to the principles found in the bible on the subject of truth and how God hardens the heart by sending strong delusions...

Next, we already discussed earlier that Jesus Christ is not a created being who came into being due to being a mere a thought in the eternal mind of God. That idea you have is decidedly Gnostic and presents another Jesus, not the true Jesus, but another jesus. Wake up oldman...

Next you tout the glories of love, wisdom, not condemning and then call many of us here hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, well, not very loving and anti-offending is it?

In fact your claim that the pure and faithful Spirit ... have no reason to deceive and offend any of us.. is well proven false by your own actions and words here on this forum.

As a matter of fact, we have let you post here a constant dribble of Gnostic ideas. At times, we had to call you out and stop this, not to bring you to ruin, but rather in a tuff love fashion to jar you to your senses and return to actually become Born Again by God's true Holy Spirit. It is we who extend grace to you and you keep abusing it, as you do God's grace, in order to remain harden toward the True Lord of All. You do present another gospel and another jesus that is not found in the bible but rather in your own mind. I have, by demonstrating from the word of God, that what you have been constantly quoting is great error and great deception.

Acts 17:30 does apply to you: Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent... NKJV

Your eternal destiny is at stake. Cannot you see how your doctrine makes a mockery of God's way, truth, love, faithfulness?
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B.W. wrote:First off, the bible clearly teaches that it is Jesus who was faithful unto death

Yes, it is Jesus who was faithful unto death, the Spirit that ruled in Him is the reason why He was faithful unto death, and it is precisely this same Spirit that must rule in us if we are going to be trusted to live and serve God and creation forever. Only when this Spirit lives and rules in us will our old corrupt spirit of lies and delusion be put to death.

B.W. wrote:as Heb 12:2 and Rev 1:5,6 reveals as does much of the New Testament clearly teach. No where does the bible say - the pure and faithful Spirit was faithful to love unto death. How can such a spirit actually die and pay for our sins? Are you aware how your very words end up make a mockery of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection?

I am aware that right now the Spirit of truth is not ruling in you B.W.

B.W. wrote:You mentioned that the spirit will not deceive or offend any of us. You pit the words deceive against the word offend in order to hide the identity of the spirit whom you speak. The true third person of God's essence, the Holy Spirit, will tell the truth, that is true.

Can you explain why you believe the one you call “the Holy Spirit” is telling you the truth?

B.W. wrote:However, the True Holy Spirit of the Godhead does indeed offend as it is written in John 16:7,8,9,10,11, Jude 1:14,15 and elsewhere reveals that God the Holy Spirit indeed offends by conviction, pricking ones conscience, offend folks for their sins and offences, etc. Therefore, the one whom you speak is not the True living Holy Spirit of the Godhead. What you are doing, most likely not aware of it until now, is that your doctrine seeks to pit God's own attributes against each other such as his love against offending.


Next is a fact read it: "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie..." 2 Th 2:11

Then add to this these verses: Isaiah 66:4 NKJV, Psalms 81:11-12, Psalms 109:17, Rom 1:21-25, Rom 1:28... God does indeed send delusions due to the sin within a persons heart in order to offend them and awake them to their sense, if they do not awaken, judgment comes. You said said God does not deceives (sends delusions), yet, the bible says He does.

You are taking my words out of context and I should have made myself more clear to you.

Let me repeat what I said earlier but make myself more clear.

Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love us unto death (that was revealed in the Lord Jesus when He ministered and died on earth) will have no reason to deceive and offend (by“offend” I mean offend so that we be harmed and offended eternally) any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by His true followers.

B.W. wrote:Why, to reveal truth in order to reveal the true state of a person's heart either sealing it for eternal punishment or coming to ones senses for His salvafic work. Again, your statements goes contrary to the principles found in the bible on the subject of truth and how God hardens the heart by sending strong delusions...

This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit revealed throughout His life and death on earth and through the lives and deaths of many of His true followers throughout history, there can be seen no reason to lie.

B.W. wrote:Next, we already discussed earlier that Jesus Christ is not a created being who came into being due to being a mere a thought in the eternal mind of God. That idea you have is decidedly Gnostic and presents another Jesus, not the true Jesus, but another jesus. Wake up oldman...

I have woken up to the true Jesus, the Son of God, the Son of reason.

“In the beginning was the Word” (In the beginning the eternal Son existed only in the eternal thoughts of the Father as a spiritual embryo.) “and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (This Word, this embryo became a facsimile of the Father, not a creation as such but another part of the Father. This 2nd mind became another person like the Father, the Father's Son before creation began.) “He was with God in the beginning. All things were made through Him,” (through the Father and the Son's pure and perfect love for each other they began creating everything whilst giving that love to all who they created.) “without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1:1-3.

As the eternal Son existed and grew within the eternal Father before creation began, so the eternal Spirit of truth existed and grew with the Son in the eternal Father also.

To deny the Son came from His Father by the will of His Father in eternity before creation began, as false teachers often do, is to deny the true meaning of the words “Father” and “Son” that were used by God to describe the 1st and 2nd person in the Godhead.

By denying the Son came from His Father before creation began, false teachers seek to lead others to deny the bond of perfect love that only a perfect Father and Son can give to each other.

False teachers seek to lead men to ignore and reject the unique Father and Son relationship that gave us the Spirit of truth.

The 1st and 2nd person of the Godhead were not revealed to us as “Father” and “Son” for nothing, as many false teachers would have us believe.

B.W. wrote:Next you tout the glories of love, wisdom, not condemning and then call many of us here hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, well, not very loving and anti-offending is it?

I am speaking the truth.

B.W. wrote:In fact your claim that the pure and faithful Spirit ... have no reason to deceive and offend any of us.. is well proven false by your own actions and words here on this forum.

When have I deceived you?

B.W. wrote:As a matter of fact, we have let you post here a constant dribble of Gnostic ideas. At times, we had to call you out and stop this, not to bring you to ruin, but rather in a tuff love fashion to jar you to your senses and return to actually become Born Again by God's true Holy Spirit. It is we who extend grace to you and you keep abusing it, as you do God's grace, in order to remain harden toward the True Lord of All. You do present another gospel and another jesus that is not found in the bible but rather in your own mind. I have, by demonstrating from the word of God, that what you have been constantly quoting is great error and great deception.

When have I deceived you?

B.W. wrote:Acts 17:30 does apply to you: Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent... NKJV

Then repent of your evil nature

B.W. wrote:Your eternal destiny is at stake. Cannot you see how your doctrine makes a mockery of God's way, truth, love, faithfulness?

Only the pure and faithful Spirit that has proved faithful to love us unto death, will have no reason to deceive and “offend” any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by the Lord Jesus and by His true followers. This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers who witnessed the ministry and finished work of Jesus were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even tortured to death rather than live a lie and deny who they believed in or what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine, the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ. Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit lives on in all His true followers still.

By reason, this Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth, simply because there is no reasonable alternative in which we all can trust.

I have faith in the God of reason, to believe in Him is to believe in reason. By reason alone He exists, by reason He is our only reasonable hope.

When the Son of God suffered and died for us taking our punishment He also revealed His self sacrificing Spirit of perfect love: faithful to love unto death and the only way to overcome our old corrupt spirit of lies and delusion. By His finished work He has revealed in full the essence and character of His Spirit that we must have faith in if we care to be saved. Through His finished work His Spirit and way of salvation is now known. But if we refuse to forsake our old offensive and corrupt spirit and see it dead when it rears its ugly head then our faith is dead, we are not being governed by the Holy Spirit and neither are we being made worthy to live with God forever:

“For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it” (Matthew 16:25).

He poured out His life for us and we will be ready to do the same for His sake if we are born again. And what is His “sake” if it is not the glory of His love and endless joy in free and endless creation? We who have a living faith in Him will see our old corrupt selves dead and see His promised paradise where the free and infinite imagination of the Spirit of truth is the infinite realm of everything. We who are being saved will see and know the endless joy in free and endless creation.

And your eternal destiny is at stake friend.

None are so lost as those who ignore and reject reason.

None are so blind as those who cannot see reason.

From the Father and the Son comes their perfect and eternal love for each other. Their love is their endless joy in their pure and perfect caring, sharing and giving to each other all that they are and all that they care to create. The Son came from the Father in eternity before creation began and He naturally looks up to His Father, but without the Father's only eternal child there would be no possibility for an eternal God known as "love", "God is love", as Scripture clearly proclaims, and this love cannot exist with one person alone. This love, this God called love, needs at least two free thinking reasoning minds, and through the eternal Son the Father became the eternal giver of joy in perfect caring and sharing, and through the eternal Father His Son became the eternal receiver and giver of this same Spirit. Without the eternal Son there would be no such Spirit of pure and perfect eternal love; and it is this eternal Spirit that comes through the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son, all creation is governed. This Spirit naturally embraces all knowledge and wisdom and would mean nothing without being the heart or the innermost ruling character of a person. 

The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. This Spirit is the heart of God's personality. This Spirit is what governs His reasoning and all creation. Only the Spirit that has proved faithful to love us unto death can have no reason to deceive and "offend" any of us, this is obvious to all who can see.

All who are given faith in this Spirit will naturally have faith in the Son. All who are of God have faith in this Spirit. Whoever will not have faith in this Spirit will remain a liar.