Infant baptism? I'm sure many Atheists would be interested to know they're actually Christian.Thadeyus wrote:Okay....working tho=rough the Hitler side quest. We can see from the Wiki that the fellow was baptized a Roman Christian. He may have lapsed (As in stopped going to church etc) BUT he was never ex-communicated, as far as I'm aware. Hence, by from Roman Catholic side of things, he is still (Probably with a lot of wincing and back dating of things if they don't like it) A denomination of Christian.Kurieuo wrote:Thad, I didn't get a chuckle.
I just wish skeptics like yourself would sometimes question their own beliefs and sources.
It is ultimately out of a desire to reveal truth, rather than poke fun, that I put time into writing here. Nuts often need a hammer to crack though, which is why I might appear to jester or be extremely critical and aggressive in tone at times. I have little patience when I believe people's lives are actually at stake. I do often wonder though why those like yourself are here? What drives you to respond or debate Christians?
Also, re-read my posts. I never stated either way whether I believed Hitler Christian or not, but rather I explicitly stated my opinion wouldn't matter to you (which it obviously doesn't). Instead I encouraged you to do your own research from neutral sources, rather than your secular ones. You say you spent hours, and I must assume these hours came before my post encouraging you to research him since you responded to me in a matter of minutes.
But, then I called your bluff, because anyone who has seriously read up on the guy would question your belief that Hitler was Christian. Rather than give my opinion though, which I know you hold little regard for, I referred you to an easily found article at Wikipedia (which is often moderated in a manner that is less than favorable towards Christianity).
And still... there is persistence your end it seems to cling to your original statement and belief re: Hitler's Christianity. Have a read of what Daniel quoted. There is more at the link. Otherwise, happy to move on. I just encourage you to have a healthy skepticism which includes questioning your own anti-Christian beliefs and "ammo", not simply those who hold religious beliefs or believe that God exists.
Now... we can all agree that Hitler was a bad person as well as being a bad Christian (Of the Roman Catholic denomination) etc.
As for saying Hitler etc are bad people. Yes, I can say they were bad people....Based on the knowledge/education/social more etc of the secular society in which I have grown up and lived in.
Much cheers to all.
Really, I think you'd be on more solid grounds just forgetting about Hitler and simply focusing on the Church's many sins throughout history, whether Catholic or Protestant. Hitler clearly held to secular naturalistic ideals in action and words, simply using Christianity, philosophy, science, social media and education and whatever he had available to him to try install his political ideals and create his "perfect" world that was highly influenced by Nietzsche's thoughts.
And yet, everyone is guilty at some point, which is why as a Free-thinking Christian I believe the source of "Christ"ianity should be "Christ" Himself. To reject Christ based on the RCC is simply a reverse kind of genetic fallacy, that is, your associating "Christ" with the RCC or some particular denomination rather than the other way around, and therefore rejecting Christianity. What happened to bare belief in God or Christ? Like your perhaps simple "no belief in God", my "belief in God and Christ" is alone what I will always have regardless of any organised religion expressed via the RCC or some Protestant denomination or the like.
I do now have a particular church I prefer here in Australia, because it appears blessed with some really great pastors. But, as a Christian, I don't see my Christianity due to my attending a particular church or denomination.
This is something I think Catholics largely get confused over (my wife being brought up Catholic in perhaps the same manner as you). In RCC, one's Christianity is largely attached to the RCC. It is hard as a Catholic to see how one can indeed be Christian without the RCC. I've seen this play out in real life with my wife who after being brought up by her mother (a devout Catholic), and her aunt (a past nun) ended up being put off religion and Christianity in particular. It became a joke to her.
Eventually, we met and some months after she came to Christ for the first time. Her mother rather than being overjoyed that her daughter now took Christian beliefs seriously, seemed quite dismayed. She has since been challenged by her brother. He is by no means a practicing Catholic, except that he'd consider himself Catholic in virtue of his mother when in fact he seems more to be a skeptical Agnostic... yet, because she seriously turned to Christ via Protestant sources--he seems to see this as an attack on their family for she no longer identified as "Catholic" and therefore was betraying her mother and family.
Anyway, I'd encourage you to look beyond the RCC and labels of one particular church denomination or the other. While such may influence one's Christianity, such do nothing to make one a Christian -- which I'm sure even Byblos as a well-reasoned and more free-thinking Catholic would agree with
The Roman Catholic angle is just as silly: what happens if you are a baptized Catholic, then proclaim yourself an atheist and never get excommunicated? Are you still a Christian?! C'mon, Thadeyus, use the brain God gave you!
