All Men Are Created Equal

[neo-x]

Thats good to hear. thanks

[PaulSacramento]

PaulS wrote:
Adultery is a far greater sin than homosexuality (IMO), it is one of the "Big 10", one of the first "thou shall not..." and yet, I don't recall ANYONE ever being lynched and beating for adultery, do you guys?

No, nobody has ever been beaten or shot for sleeping with someone else's wife. Never.

I think that we ALL agree that homosexuality is a sin, BUT the issue at hand seems to be two fold:
Why do some treat it as a far bigger sin that many others that seem to be worse.

Probably the same reason that people try to make their sin seem like less of a sin, by making others seem worse.

How do we treat/deal with those that are homosexual and struggling with it.

The same way we deal with anyone struggling with sin.

Look, to be very clear: NO ONE is stating that homosexuality is OK or that it is NOT a sin, IT IS A SON and it is NOT OK.
Even if we find that some people are born that way, it does NOT make it less of a sin.

No one is stating that homosexuality is not a sin? Really? So, those who are trying to force us to accept homosexual "marriage" as normal, think it's a sin?

Who here is stating that homosexual behavior is NOT a sin?
Lets be very clear here and not skirt the issue:
Homosexuality is NOT a bigger sin than any other ( and it may be argued that it is less than some) YET no other sin seems to get as much press from BOTH sides.
Why?
That is really the question here isn't it?

[PaulSacramento]

No, nobody has ever been beaten or shot for sleeping with someone else's wife. Never.

Do you really wanna compare? I mean really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_a ... GBT_people

Really?

[Philip]

I quite agree that many Christians (partly because they are HETEROsexual and find it repulsive and partly because of the highly agressive, in-your-face militant homosexual hard core) have a bigger problem with homosexuality than other sins - like adultery. Is adultery or having sex outside of wedlock any less of a sin, in GOD'S eyes? I don't think so. Again, when we FIRST focus on someone's sins - ANY of them - BEFORE we establish a relationship that allows us to talk to them about faith, about the Lord - I think that's pointlessly getting the cart before the horse. Redundant, but NO one tends to care what you have to say until they know that you care - ESPECIALLY when it comes to something that they don't even recognize as sin, per the mandates of a God they don't even know or respect.

The REAL people that I am highly concerned with are typically NOT homosexuals but those in the church or those who claim to be Christians, who assert that one's gayness is 1) not a sin; 2) Is God-given; 3) That God doesn't view homosexual acts as being sinful, as it is precisely how He created them to act out their sexuality (has His blessing); 4) The very same Christians or supposed Christians who claim the Biblical passages condemning homosexual acts is either misunderstood or it's just the mere words of confused, unenlightened men. People asserting that actively sexual gay people have no worries from God's point of view - well, they are helping terribly deceived people REMAIN in bondage to their sin. Of COURSE, those active in ANY ongoing sinful behavior wants to hear that it is just fine in God's eyes. That just validates what many gay people already believe. Which is both sad and cruel. Of course, these same people often assert many other sinful activities are not wrong, either. If those of us who are supposed to be bringing salt and light to a dark world simply validate many aspects and behaviors of that world, how are we any different than unbelievers who say such things?

[PaulSacramento]

I think that any Christian ( or anyone from judeo-Christian-Islam faiths) that sees homosexual behaviour as NOT being a sin and "god given" is either delusional or have an ulterior motive to bring down "their religion".
I mean, regardless of how ANYONE feels about it, the bible is clear that it is a sin, period.

I just feel this particular sin gets far more attention than it deserves.
Probably because homosexuality is getting so much press to be "legitimized".
Still, IMO, the more press it gets, the more press it craves and I often wonder that IF that is exactly what those that want to legitimize homosexuality want and IF we are playing right into their hands...

[neo-x]

Jac, I am short on time for now and will respond to your post as soon as I have time since its a lot to respond to. I am looking forward to reading that book by the way.

[RickD]

PaulS wrote:
Adultery is a far greater sin than homosexuality (IMO), it is one of the "Big 10", one of the first "thou shall not..." and yet, I don't recall ANYONE ever being lynched and beating for adultery, do you guys?

No, nobody has ever been beaten or shot for sleeping with someone else's wife. Never.

I think that we ALL agree that homosexuality is a sin, BUT the issue at hand seems to be two fold:
Why do some treat it as a far bigger sin that many others that seem to be worse.

Probably the same reason that people try to make their sin seem like less of a sin, by making others seem worse.

How do we treat/deal with those that are homosexual and struggling with it.

The same way we deal with anyone struggling with sin.

Look, to be very clear: NO ONE is stating that homosexuality is OK or that it is NOT a sin, IT IS A SON and it is NOT OK.
Even if we find that some people are born that way, it does NOT make it less of a sin.

No one is stating that homosexuality is not a sin? Really? So, those who are trying to force us to accept homosexual "marriage" as normal, think it's a sin?

Who here is stating that homosexual behavior is NOT a sin?
Lets be very clear here and not skirt the issue:
Homosexuality is NOT a bigger sin than any other ( and it may be argued that it is less than some) YET no other sin seems to get as much press from BOTH sides.
Why?
That is really the question here isn't it?

Paul,

this is getting ridiculous now. You said:

Look, to be very clear: NO ONE is stating that homosexuality is OK or that it is NOT a sin, IT IS A SON and it is NOT OK.

And I responded by saying:

No one is stating that homosexuality is not a sin? Really? So, those who are trying to force us to accept homosexual "marriage" as normal, think it's a sin?

And you responded:

Who here is stating that homosexual behavior is NOT a sin?

Your first point never specified people HERE. So I took it as you wrote it. That NO ONE, meaning people in general, not just people here.

I never said people HERE said homosexual acts aren't a sin.

We would not be discussing the issue if NO ONE said homosexual acts weren't a sin. The fact is that people are not only claiming homosexual acts aren't sinful, some even expect everyone to agree with that lifestyle.


This is not logical at all. You wrote:

Homosexuality is NOT a bigger sin than any other ( and it may be argued that it is less than some) YET no other sin seems to get as much press from BOTH sides.

By the logic of you saying "Homosexuality is NOT a bigger sin than any other ( and it may be argued that it is less than some)", literally means that Homosexuality is the "smallest" of all possible sins.

I personally don't harp on homosexuality. When the topic comes up here, I discuss it. Just like any other topic I'm interested in.

My point in all of this is simply that homosexual acts are sinful. And by saying homosexual "marriage" is ok, or we as Christians should concede homosexual "marriage", is saying we look the other way at something that is sinful. You say people make homosexual sin worse than all other sins. I say, by one saying homosexual "marriage" is ok, one is saying homosexual acts are acceptable.

[RickD]

No, nobody has ever been beaten or shot for sleeping with someone else's wife. Never.

Do you really wanna compare? I mean really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_a ... GBT_people

Really?

I didn't make the comparison, you did when you said:

... I don't recall ANYONE ever being lynched and beating for adultery, do you guys?

I simply said you were wrong.

[PaulSacramento]

Rick,
Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was stating that in this thread no one is saying that it isn't a sin, my bad.
Of course out there many people don't even believe in sin at all, much less homosexuality being a sin.
My point is simply that homosexuality gets far more attention than it deserves ( in all regards IMO).
The first 10 commandments given to Us speak of many things but of the "thou shall not" it mentions:
NOT to covet what isn't ours, not to steal, not to commit adultery ( just to name a 3) and those are done FAR MORE times at any given moment than homosexual behavior and by far more people, including Christians.
Yet...
Here we are over and over discussing and debating homosexuality and same-sex marriages.

Why?
Because for some reason "sex sells".
It is provocative, celebrities even come out as bi to be "in" since being gay or Bi is SO IN !!

And every time another Christian group comes out with their "intolerance" and "hate" against the GLBT community, the more "IN" they become.

We ( Christians) ALL know it is a sin, we also know that we are to love the sinner BUT to NOT condone the Sin.

We should quite simply state that, leave it at that and welcome any who wish to "sin no more" BUT never turn our backs on those that are still struggling because, guess what?

Remember those other sins too? Yeah, we ALL struggle with them as well and some of us in fall too.

Just saying...

[RickD]

Paul,

When adulterers unite and try to make laws saying adultery is not a sin, and they attack anyone who won't agree with them, and then try to force those who disagree with them, to agree with their adulterous lifestyle, then we'll give adultery as much attention as homosexual sins.

[RickD]

Proinsias wrote:
We have same sex marrige here in Scotland & it's rather pleasant living here. The natural law argument doesn't really hold much water beyond stating things you like or don't. Making claims about what marriage is does not make it so, it's a legal arrangement between two individuals where I live.

And in Scotland, it's culturally acceptable for a man to molest sheep. So what's your point?

[RickD]

Yes I am saying that exactly.

Second behavior is hardwired. Do you behave gay rick, no? So they can't behave straight either.

That's simply not true Neo. I can commit homosexual sin even if I'm not attracted to a man.

The act of lying with a man as with a woman, is the sin. So even one who calls himself heterosexual, can still commit homosexual sin. The bible doesn't make a distinction between someone who is gay or straight committing homosexual sin. It's the act that's the sin, whether the one who commits the sin is straight or gay.

[Proinsias]

And in Scotland, it's culturally acceptable for a man to molest sheep. So what's your point?

Yeah, best to do that at the edge of a cliff...they push back better

[Danieltwotwenty]

Paul,

When adulterers unite and try to make laws saying adultery is not a sin, and they attack anyone who won't agree with them, and then try to force those who disagree with them, to agree with their adulterous lifestyle, then we'll give adultery as much attention as homosexual sins.

Yet we allow them to remarry.

[Philip]

And in Scotland, it's culturally acceptable for a man to molest sheep. So what's your point?

Heck, the way things are going and with the wild logic that judges use to render new decisions, how long will it be before a man can marry his favorite ewe. To which most will respond with "eewwwwwwwww." But not all. Some wiseguys will look at it philosophically and then exclaim, "Well, why NOT? If he wants to marry it, who is to say he shouldn't have the right?" And then later the guy dies and leaves all his worldly goods to his mourning sheep wife, and then suddenly property and inheritance law specialists will truly be surfing on the edge. This idea that every time someone wants something and attempts to obtain it by asserting that it is his natural (though UNnatural) right - well, that mentality is quickly greasing the handbasket. And later, some dude will want his own harem flock But women will still have to fight harder to wed their beloved ram.