Evidence for God from Science

Okay, Daniel. I'm not going to contribute to this any further, and I want to be clear why. There is nothing wrong with having strong disagreements on matters of foreign policy, on any policy. There's nothing wrong with having strong differences on moral issues. But when you disagreement becomes the kind of rhetoric where you are making immoral comparisons and actively slandering others--especially fellow members of the body of Christ--then what you are engaging in is no longer (heated) debate, but rather sin. And make no mistake, what you've done above is sin. I see a parallel here between your comments and the recent comments by Scott Walker in which he compared the roughly 100,000 American protestors who opposed his public union policies with ISIS fighters. He later backed off he remarks and tried to explain them away, but it was precisely because the comparison was so vile. In a similar way, you've resorted demeaning others and comparing them to the worst kind of evil on the planet today. You may as well have said evangelicals are Nazis. It's disgusting, and that is the kind of rhetoric that ought not be tolerated.

Given all that, and because I know you aren't going to back down off this, I'm not going to present you with further cause to sin. I get that you are very deeply opposed to war of all kinds. While I deeply disagree with your position, I can at least respect it as a position that many people and great saints have held. But your opposition is causing you to slander others, and frankly, I don't think this is something you are capable of discussing in a matter that isn't self-condemning.

On a final note, none of this says anything about my personal respect for you. I'm not so robotic as to pretend like your lumping "evangelicals" (even "intolerant evangelicals") in with murderers doesn't affect me. I am an evangelical, and one you might well call "intolerant." So your remarks here are highly offensive. But with that said, all of us--starting with me as you well know--have said stupid things, and I'm not so blinded by all this as to think that you actually think of me in such slanderous terms. So I can hear and deal with my own emotional reaction. I say all that because I don't want to give you the wrong idea here. I'm not posting out of anger, but I'm also not pretending that I'm posting from some objective place in which I can make dispassionate rulings from on high. I'm human, too. I just think that, despite my offense, I'm terribly concerned about what I see to be as a serious sin on your part. I hope and pray that you'll reconsider your rhetoric if not your position. But either way, again, I don't want to be a further cause to stumble, and I don't want this to get out of hand and the mods have to get involved. Peace and fellowship ought not be violated, so it is in those interests that I'm bowing out here.

I read up until slander, I was actually slandered many times for no reason and called it out for exactly what it is, simple as that. Didn't bother reading the rest, if the start was a load of bull it did not give me any hope for the rest.

You believe what you want Jac I couldnt care less.

B. W. wrote:

Rob wrote:By and large, the Muslim people are peaceful and moral. It is true that you can use the Qur'an and Hadith to back this up. However, you can also use them to justify all kinds of terrible things and many do. It's a different situation entirely than things from the Old Testament where we can look into the context and historical background for insight. We can at least know what was written. What Dan said about the majority of early Qur'an texts being burned was true. This happened under the Caliph Uthman in 650 AD. In order to prevent pesky footnotes and different readings, he ordered all versions and writings to be gathered. From these he selected an official version and had the rest burned.
That being said, we can safely take the text at face value simply for the fact that other texts no longer exist. Until we can find many alternate manuscripts that describe how Aisha was actually 18 when they consummated their marriage, we can safely assume that the text as it is now is correct. If you try and say that we don't really know what the text says, then you may as well just throw the whole thing out.
If the Qur'an is truly the word of Allah, you'd think Allah would have guarded his word more carefully. (And understood Christian theology)
The Qur'an is not the word of Allah that existed forever in time (in Arabic). It is a view of the world from a 7th century man's understanding.

There are plenty of peaceful passages in the Qur'an. Muhammed was all about peace when Islam was the minority in Pagan polytheistic Mecca, but Islam is a political religion and cannot be rightly separated from government. The pattern with Islam is that once it becomes majority and in power, those violent passages take over.

I have a great deal of respect for the Muslim people. At least they understand their unworthiness before a Holy God. I pray that they come to a knowledge of Christ and cling to the cross. Islam is darkness.

I disagree that Islam teaches a peaceful moralism - what fellowship does light have with darkness?

Islam kills - Christianity loves... big difference.

Again the article quoted below sums it up very well.

Six eye-opening things you might not have known about Islam from a top Shariah lawyer
Feb. 27, 2015 9:15am
Benjamin Weingarten

6 things not known about Islam

Recently we conducted an extensive interview with a former top Iranian Shariah lawyer and author of “Honor Killing: A Professional’s Guide to Sexual Relations and Ghayra Violence from the Islamic Sources,” Daniel Akbari, on the nature of Islam and Shariah law generally, and in particular its dictates regarding violence against women.

While reading Akbari’s book, we came across a passage describing six principles in Islam that we thought might be particularly eye-opening for readers. These include:

1-Koffar (unbelievers) do not have a right to know what Islam teaches.

2-It is sinful for Muslims to take non-Muslims as friends or protectors unless it is for the purpose of using the non-Muslims to accomplish the goals of Islam. It is not a sin if Muslims “make taqiyya” – use deception – to protect themselves or Islam.

3-Muslims must lie if it is the only way to achieve an obligatory goal of Islam, especially the maqasid al-sharia, the ultimate goal.

4-The most important goal Muslims must achieve is to spread deen, the worship of Allah through Islam.

5-It is sinful for Muslims to allow non-Muslims to look down on Muslims or Islam in any way.

6-Finally, the purpose of ghayra violence [up to and including honor killing] is to al-amr bi al-ma’ruf wa al-nahy ‘an al-munkar – to enjoin good and forbid evil as defined by the moral rules of sharia.

Muslims know that non-Muslims do not follow the moral rules of sharia, they follow the moral provisions of their religion or their law. Muslims also know non-Muslims do not understand the moral provisions of sharia, because understanding sharia moral provisions requires understanding the maqasid al-sharia, the goals of Islam.

It does not benefit Muslims to inform non-Muslims of the maqasid so they could understand sharia because the ultimate goal of Islam is to contain, subjugate and eliminate all other religions so that all people everywhere follow Islam. Revealing this goal would only increase opposition among the most wicked of all creatures, those who resist Islam.

It follows it is not in the interest of Muslims to reveal Islam’s connection to ghayra violence. To reveal this connection would alert non-Muslims to disparage Islam or Muslims and, at worst, might stimulate non-Muslims to resist Islam. The Muslims’ best course of action – the way that minimizes opposition to the spread of deen – is to deceive non-Muslims into believing Muslims follow the same moral ideas they follow. Only in that way will Islam not appear to threaten the moral and political order of koffar society.

Our conclusion is that deceiving non-Muslims about Islam’s connection to ghayra violence is obligatory, so non-Muslims will not perceive the difference between their morality and sharia and threaten the spread of deen. Good news again for our Muslim spokespeople! But of course, they knew this all the time. Now you do, too.

-
-
-

I do not for a moment condone violence or evil.
Can both be found in Islam? Unequivocally yes.
So what do we stand for?
What do we stand against?
Violence and evil

I will now quote directly from this link 'The Blaze' in the subsequent responses by Christians...

Charbet -Feb. 27, 2015 at 10:24am
I do not believe there is such a being as a moderate Muslim.


5ezpzez -Feb. 27, 2015 at 6:56pm
So, in other words, you can’t trust anyone who is a Muslim & claims Islam as their faith. They will LIE in order to advance islam.
In light of all this, the pages of the quron,qur’on, koran, or however the F they want to spell it this week are only good for two things…lining a bird gage or wiping my a**.


“MONK” a well-respected Blazer known to most of us, nailed it the other day, and I quote:

“The radical islamic muslims want to kill us.
The moderate islamic muslims want the radical islamic muslims to kill us.”

That about sums it up to me.

eramthgin -Feb. 27, 2015 at 4:34pm
Come on people it is not a religion but a BLOOD CULT. We must kill them all before they kill us. They do not want to live in peace. They want to bring on the end of days and remove every human being from the earth.


Lets not be hypocritical and choose when violence and hate is out of line. It is never ok. Never tolerated and always in contrast to Jesus' message.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:...To sum up my position, I think the large majority of Muslim who are peaceful are following their text properly, the extremists are not. I don't agree with Islam as a religion, it is a heavy form of legalism, very similar to the OT laws. I think it is the attitudes here that create hatred and stir up anger, I don't agree with it and I don't think it is of Christ, but hey we are all human and we all do it at different levels.

The only way we can beat extremism (that includes extremism from all religions, Christianity included) is though education and not finger pointing.

But do as you please, I think that things will not change in a hurry, it is human nature to fear what he doesn't understand.

I commend the Australia Govt stance on Islam:

Muslim leaders in Australia say banning terrorism will ban Islam

Also note equivalency arguments are the bedrock of progressive liberal thought that aids a nation or Christians to what amounts to national or spiritual suicide.

The bible is quite clear on on this:

Eph 5:11 NKJV, And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

I do not understand this so called christian buttering up to Islam in the name of God's love in order to understand them. Several folks that have traveled this path to its extreme have become radicalized converts to Islam. So are you aware Dan that might be happening to you?

In that I am deeply concerned...

You paint with a broad brush all Christians as moral monsters and then in the same line of reasoning say it is okay for Islam to practice deception, murder, and extreme intolerance because of the acts of a few whacked out people doing bad things in the name of Christianity serves to justify things like Islam's honor killings without even realizing what you are saying or implying? Yet Islam does teach terrorism plain and simple as legit. In Christianity, the Lord Jesus Christ's unseen hand of correction corrects his people. Islam has none of that nor is it capable of self correction either. Have you considered Dan,that you maybe being deceived by some sort of spiritual pride?

When folks deal too long buttering up to Islam - they do become angry, bitter, intolerant, course, and a militancy sort begins to take over. Reviewing your past post to the ones now, this pattern has recently emerged. You once were not like this. Please understand that this is not a cut down or accusation but are you more pro-Islam and now less pro-Jesus Christ?

So for the love of God: Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 2 Co 6:14-15 NKJV

The text is clear - do not be unequally yoked with non Christians. It does not say slay them or deceive them. Nor does it say one cannot associate with the unsaved ever. It says do not be unequally yoked... So do you associate more with Muslims now than with Christians? Are you developing the Stockholm Syndrome?

I say this for no other reason other than out of the love of God that compels a deep concern for you...
-
-
-