salvation and works

[jlay]

No but I believe God gives people a space to repent because we are human. But if we do not repent even after God has given us time to repent. Then how can you say you still love God? As Christians we may find our selves not pleasing God but when we do we will repent and continue following Jesus's steps.

Following Jesus' steps? Again, this is modern spiritualization of the text. Specifically what do you mean? I am willing to wager that 'following' is some form of dos and don'ts. Further, you are saying you love God. And, that your love is based on your WILLINGNESS to do and don't do certain things. I'm sorry, but as noble as that sounds, that is the Law. Do you sin? You already admitted you do, so why do you keep saying you still love God. When you say things like this you imply (whether you intend to or not) that you love God more than other people and therefore you deserve something.

The only way to please God is stop trying to please Him and simply trust Him. We are instructed to rest in Him. Does that mean we do nothing? Well, not really. Paul stated that God has prepared the works beforehand that we should walk in them. (Eph. 2:10)
Paul says to present our lives as a living sacrifice. (Rom. 12:1) But he says that the sacrifice is to BE holy and pleasing. How does one become Holy and pleasing. Answer, you already are. The moment you trusted Christ alone for salvation, He made you Holy and pleasing in His sight. So, we must be willing to sacrifice our ability, skills, determination, spunk and gumption. God doesn't need it. How do we love God? Rest in the fact that He loved us first. Really abide in the fact that He loves us unconditionally. And then watch Him go to work. You will love like you never loved. Forgive like you never forgave and produce like you've never produced. Let Him source you.

The term repent means to change one's mind. I would say that we do need to repent, but this doesn't appear to be how you are using the word. You seem to think repent means to get your s--t together and start pulling your weight. It doesn't. It means to abandon one way of thinking to embrace a new way of thinking. Let (allow) this mind that is in Christ, be in you.
Don't be conformed any longer to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
I don't want to follow Jesus. You never hear that term used in the scripture after Jesus leaves this Earth. So repent, and stop spiritualizing the text where it doesn't call for it. I want Him to live His life through me. The difference is liberating.

[jpbg33]

I am not saying that love come from my do and don't. That is what you want to believe but that is not what I am say at all. If someone can not read what I have wrote and see that I do thing because I love God. Then that is probably why so many people get scripture so misinterpreted. I have not said I work to do anything or to get anything but I work because I want to please God and I want to please him because I love him. Not because I want to stay out of hell. But I do the thing I do because I love God.

[RickD]

I am not saying that love come from my do and don't. That is what you want to believe but that is not what I am say at all. If someone can not read what I have wrote and see that I do thing because I love God. Then that is probably why so many people get scripture so misinterpreted. I have not said I work to do anything or to get anything but I work because I want to please God and I want to please him because I love him. Not because I want to stay out of hell. But I do the thing I do because I love God.

jpbg,

You are not listening to what anyone is saying. How many people have tried to explain to you that what you are saying is wrong?

Please,

Just listen to what we are saying.

[B. W.]

You know, the other day decided to make my wife a sandwich and some veggies for lunch. There was no motive on my part. I did not do this as to make a deal that she must make me a special dinner later on cause now she owes me. Nor did I do this because if I don't, God will strike me with the plague. It was not on valentines day and thus not coerced but way before that date. I did for no particular reason other than I love her. Love does express it's nature.

Therefore, if we want to please our heavenly Father with no motives or deal making on our part, just do something nice for him, then that is a sin called works? Imagine marriages were based on that principle that there is no need to love with all thy heart, soul, and being at all. That we just sit on the couch being served nachos by Jesus. Maybe that explains high divorce rates and lazy Christians midst a world heading for hell.
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[Byblos]

It was not on valentines day and thus not coerced ...

So are you saying if you were to do something nice on Valentine's day then it would be coerced?

[jpbg33]

I am listening but you are not listening to me. What I am saying is what the bible says but in my on words I say we do works because we love God and want to please him.

The bible say faith with out works is dead.

Same thing if you are saved like you say then you will be doing works because you are saved.
works do not save you but it what you do when you get saved.

1Jhon 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jhon 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jhon 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jhon 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


It is not a sin to try and please God I do not know were people get that idea.
I would like for someone to show me in the bible it says that it is a sin to try and please God.

[RickD]

You know, the other day decided to make my wife a sandwich and some veggies for lunch. There was no motive on my part. I did not do this as to make a deal that she must make me a special dinner later on cause now she owes me. Nor did I do this because if I don't, God will strike me with the plague. It was not on valentines day and thus not coerced but way before that date. I did for no particular reason other than I love her. Love does express it's nature.

Therefore, if we want to please our heavenly Father with no motives or deal making on our part, just do something nice for him, then that is a sin called works? Imagine marriages were based on that principle that there is no need to love with all thy heart, soul, and being at all. That we just sit on the couch being served nachos by Jesus. Maybe that explains high divorce rates and lazy Christians midst a world heading for hell.
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Again, this is completely irrelevant. Nobody at all is saying that doing something for God is sinful works. It wouldn't be so bad if I were the only one responding to jpbg33, and you misunderstood what I was saying. Because I admit that I've had difficulties trying to say what I mean from time to time. But seeing that many others are noticing the same things about what jpbg is saying in his posts, you just don't understand.

Not one single person responding to jpbg is saying that believers should not do good works. Not one.

In fact, doing good works as a believer, is good. Believers should show our love for God and our neighbor.

But the point that you are missing, is that we don't do good works as a condition of, or to prove we are saved.

It's such a simple concept.

A believer trusts Christ for salvation. One's works have no bearing on gaining, or losing salvation.

Once one is a believer, part of living as a believer should be doing good works. Loving God and our neighbor.

[jpbg33]

I'm purposefully keeping once saved always saved out of my aguments here in this post I am not saying you do any thing to be saved or to stay saved. What I am saying is this.


Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So biblically works is to faith as the spirit is to the body

1Jhon 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jhon 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jhon 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jhon 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


side note

You can not use the thief on the cross to say we don't necessarily work when we are saved. Because we do not know what he would have done if he had the chance to do something.

[PaulSacramento]

The issue has never been about doing out of love.
It has always been about doing FOR recompense.
There is nothing we can do that is deserving of God's mercy when the reason we do it is to get something from God.
Our intentions have tainted the act, no matter how amazing the act may be.

[jpbg33]

If you read carefully what I have wrote you will see that is what I am saying because we love God.

[RickD]

If you read carefully what I have wrote you will see that is what I am saying because we love God.

Yes, you are saying that. BUT, you're also saying that if someone doesn't have fruit, then they are not saved.

The condition you put on salvation is sticking out like a sore thumb! What's worse than you saying what you may not mean, is that you can't even see that you are saying it!

And not only that, you also think that you have been given a unique, special gift to tell who is saved and who isn't!!!!

[jpbg33]

You are right I have stated it as if you will do work if you are saved and yes the thief on didn't do any work but was saved my mistake. What I meant in what I have said is this. If you are saved and have the chance to do woks then you will do works if you are saved. If you get saved on your death bed then and don't have the chance then you will not do any works.

[RickD]

You are right I have stated it as if you will do work if you are saved and yes the thief on didn't do any work but was saved my mistake. What I meant in what I have said is this. If you are saved and have the chance to do woks then you will do works if you are saved. If you get saved on your death bed then and don't have the chance then you will not do any works.

I guess you "kinda" understanding what we've been saying, is better than not seeing it at all.

[B. W.]

You are right I have stated it as if you will do work if you are saved and yes the thief on didn't do any work but was saved my mistake. What I meant in what I have said is this. If you are saved and have the chance to do woks then you will do works if you are saved. If you get saved on your death bed then and don't have the chance then you will not do any works.

I guess you "kinda" understanding what we've been saying, is better than not seeing it at all.

So, jpbg33, are you are saying that loving Jesus produces a natural progression to do good because one willingly wants too verses the compulsion that one must do good?
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[jpbg33]

Yes