Re: Theist VS atheist
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:00 am
You said I was on your "ignore list" why are you even talking to me?Jac3510 wrote:No, you aren't addressing his point.
Ken
Ken
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
You said I was on your "ignore list" why are you even talking to me?Jac3510 wrote:No, you aren't addressing his point.
Kenny,Kenny wrote:I am honest, and I am addressing the point HE made. I am addressing his actual words, but what I am not doing is putting words in his mouth which is what you seem to be good at doing.Jac3510 wrote:Nikki, Kenny is technically correct, but it's the sort of absurd and trivial point that demonstates why he's fundamentally unserious in these discussions. Yes, abel should have worded it better. He should have said "all effects have a cause." His second portion was correct, "and all things that are caused are caused by something else." That was right. He could have just left the first five words off.
Alternativey, abel could just point out (rightly) that God isn't a thing and so his statement is correct as it stands. But none of this matters. It's all just a technical discussion of how to word abel's point. If Kenny were honest, he would address the actual point abel is making rather than arguing about the semantics. But he isn't. He's too busy playing gotcha to have a serious dialogue.
Beyond that, Nikki, you are absolutely correct in your statement about God and the uncaused cause. Well said.
If he wishes to change his words, he can do that and I will address whatever point he chooses to make; but I am addressing his words, not yours.
Ken
No,it does not apply to God.I know you don't believe the bible but we do not believe in a created God liked some do our God is eternal and this is even more reason to believe in him because he can create universes easy and yet you are still using your imagination to deny the facts of the reality around you.Name something in this world that does not apply to the facts because just because you reject that God is eternal does not change the facts that in our world,God is outside but can intervention if he chooses but in our world we live in ALL things have a cause and ALL things that have a cause are caused by something else and ALL things are willed into existence.An eternal God is a must because of these facts.Kenny wrote:I noticed you enunciated the word "all". Does this means this applies to God as well?abelcainsbrother wrote: ALL things have a cause and all things that are caused are caused by something else and all things are willed into existence
What about outside our world?abelcainsbrother wrote:and ask them can they name anything in our world that does not apply to these facts
K
I haven't foe'd you. I can still read your posts. I just don't respond to your arguments. And I still don't, because they're worthless. I'm talking to you here, though, because you lied. And you need to be called out for lying.Kenny wrote:You said I was on your "ignore list" why are you even talking to me?Jac3510 wrote:No, you aren't addressing his point.
Ken
I was hoping I could get him to change his words to reflect exactly what he meant because the last time I addressed what I suspected a person meant rather than his exact words; I was told to address his words not what I think his words should have been. I didn’t want to make that mistake again.RickD wrote:Kenny,Kenny wrote:I am honest, and I am addressing the point HE made. I am addressing his actual words, but what I am not doing is putting words in his mouth which is what you seem to be good at doing.Jac3510 wrote:Nikki, Kenny is technically correct, but it's the sort of absurd and trivial point that demonstates why he's fundamentally unserious in these discussions. Yes, abel should have worded it better. He should have said "all effects have a cause." His second portion was correct, "and all things that are caused are caused by something else." That was right. He could have just left the first five words off.
Alternativey, abel could just point out (rightly) that God isn't a thing and so his statement is correct as it stands. But none of this matters. It's all just a technical discussion of how to word abel's point. If Kenny were honest, he would address the actual point abel is making rather than arguing about the semantics. But he isn't. He's too busy playing gotcha to have a serious dialogue.
Beyond that, Nikki, you are absolutely correct in your statement about God and the uncaused cause. Well said.
If he wishes to change his words, he can do that and I will address whatever point he chooses to make; but I am addressing his words, not yours.
Ken
Addressing his words isn't addressing his point. As Jac said, technically you are right, because you addressed his words. But, since he miswrote his actual point, that point went unaddressed by you.
So as usual, you aren't dealing with the point of what anyone is saying. You took the mistake that ACB wrote, and refuted that mistake. It does nothing to address what he actually meant.
Kenny wrote:I noticed you enunciated the word "all". Does this means this applies to God as well?abelcainsbrother wrote: ALL things have a cause and all things that are caused are caused by something else and all things are willed into existence
What about outside our world?abelcainsbrother wrote:and ask them can they name anything in our world that does not apply to these facts
K
So I am denying the "facts of reality"? What facts do you have that support your claims?abelcainsbrother wrote:No,it does not apply to God.I know you don't believe the bible but we do not believe in a created God liked some do our God is eternal and this is even more reason to believe in him because he can create universes easy and yet you are still using your imagination to deny the facts of the reality around you
When you say “in this world” are you referring only to plant Earth? Or am I expected to assume you meant something different (like the entire Universe) and respond to that?abelcainsbrother wrote:Name something in this world that does not apply to the facts.
Kenny wrote:I was hoping I could get him to change his words to reflect exactly what he meant because the last time I addressed what I suspected a person meant rather than his exact words; I was told to address his words not what I think his words should have been. I didn’t want to make that mistake again.RickD wrote:Kenny,Kenny wrote:I am honest, and I am addressing the point HE made. I am addressing his actual words, but what I am not doing is putting words in his mouth which is what you seem to be good at doing.Jac3510 wrote:Nikki, Kenny is technically correct, but it's the sort of absurd and trivial point that demonstates why he's fundamentally unserious in these discussions. Yes, abel should have worded it better. He should have said "all effects have a cause." His second portion was correct, "and all things that are caused are caused by something else." That was right. He could have just left the first five words off.
Alternativey, abel could just point out (rightly) that God isn't a thing and so his statement is correct as it stands. But none of this matters. It's all just a technical discussion of how to word abel's point. If Kenny were honest, he would address the actual point abel is making rather than arguing about the semantics. But he isn't. He's too busy playing gotcha to have a serious dialogue.
Beyond that, Nikki, you are absolutely correct in your statement about God and the uncaused cause. Well said.
If he wishes to change his words, he can do that and I will address whatever point he chooses to make; but I am addressing his words, not yours.
Ken
Addressing his words isn't addressing his point. As Jac said, technically you are right, because you addressed his words. But, since he miswrote his actual point, that point went unaddressed by you.
So as usual, you aren't dealing with the point of what anyone is saying. You took the mistake that ACB wrote, and refuted that mistake. It does nothing to address what he actually meant.
I suspected his point was that everything requires a beginning except his explanation to with the obvious rebuttal is if you gonna make an exception to your explanation, you need to make an exception for mine as well; otherwise you are special pleading which only works when preaching to the choir; and there are no choir members in this conversation.
You think you got me when God is a must that you ignore in order to deny the facts.You're only admitting you'd rather live by your I imagination with nothing to base it on in order for you to doubt God is eternal.We already knew you reject the bible but it will not get you out of LA LA land,because God is a must based on the facts look around you right now and see the reality you demy.
Ken
Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:I noticed you enunciated the word "all". Does this means this applies to God as well?abelcainsbrother wrote: ALL things have a cause and all things that are caused are caused by something else and all things are willed into existence
What about outside our world?abelcainsbrother wrote:and ask them can they name anything in our world that does not apply to these facts
KSo I am denying the "facts of reality"? What facts do you have that support your claims?abelcainsbrother wrote:No,it does not apply to God.I know you don't believe the bible but we do not believe in a created God liked some do our God is eternal and this is even more reason to believe in him because he can create universes easy and yet you are still using your imagination to deny the facts of the reality around youWhen you say “in this world” are you referring only to plant Earth? Or am I expected to assume you meant something different (like the entire Universe) and respond to that?abelcainsbrother wrote:Name something in this world that does not apply to the facts.
Ken
abelcainsbrother wrote:Kenny wrote:I was hoping I could get him to change his words to reflect exactly what he meant because the last time I addressed what I suspected a person meant rather than his exact words; I was told to address his words not what I think his words should have been. I didn’t want to make that mistake again.RickD wrote:Kenny,Kenny wrote:I am honest, and I am addressing the point HE made. I am addressing his actual words, but what I am not doing is putting words in his mouth which is what you seem to be good at doing.Jac3510 wrote:Nikki, Kenny is technically correct, but it's the sort of absurd and trivial point that demonstates why he's fundamentally unserious in these discussions. Yes, abel should have worded it better. He should have said "all effects have a cause." His second portion was correct, "and all things that are caused are caused by something else." That was right. He could have just left the first five words off.
Alternativey, abel could just point out (rightly) that God isn't a thing and so his statement is correct as it stands. But none of this matters. It's all just a technical discussion of how to word abel's point. If Kenny were honest, he would address the actual point abel is making rather than arguing about the semantics. But he isn't. He's too busy playing gotcha to have a serious dialogue.
Beyond that, Nikki, you are absolutely correct in your statement about God and the uncaused cause. Well said.
If he wishes to change his words, he can do that and I will address whatever point he chooses to make; but I am addressing his words, not yours.
Ken
Addressing his words isn't addressing his point. As Jac said, technically you are right, because you addressed his words. But, since he miswrote his actual point, that point went unaddressed by you.
So as usual, you aren't dealing with the point of what anyone is saying. You took the mistake that ACB wrote, and refuted that mistake. It does nothing to address what he actually meant.
I suspected his point was that everything requires a beginning except his explanation to with the obvious rebuttal is if you gonna make an exception to your explanation, you need to make an exception for mine as well; otherwise you are special pleading which only works when preaching to the choir; and there are no choir members in this conversation.
You think you got me when God is a must that you ignore in order to deny the facts.You're only admitting you'd rather live by your I imagination with nothing to base it on in order for you to doubt God is eternal.We already knew you reject the bible but it will not get you out of LA LA land,because God is a must based on the facts look around you right now and see the reality you demy.
Ken
Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:I noticed you enunciated the word "all". Does this means this applies to God as well?abelcainsbrother wrote: ALL things have a cause and all things that are caused are caused by something else and all things are willed into existence
What about outside our world?abelcainsbrother wrote:and ask them can they name anything in our world that does not apply to these facts
KSo I am denying the "facts of reality"? What facts do you have that support your claims?abelcainsbrother wrote:No,it does not apply to God.I know you don't believe the bible but we do not believe in a created God liked some do our God is eternal and this is even more reason to believe in him because he can create universes easy and yet you are still using your imagination to deny the facts of the reality around youWhen you say “in this world” are you referring only to plant Earth? Or am I expected to assume you meant something different (like the entire Universe) and respond to that?abelcainsbrother wrote:Name something in this world that does not apply to the facts.
Ken
Fair enough; I will assume you mean the entire Universe when you say "world". The problem with claims like these about the entire Universe, is we don't know enough about the contents of the Universe to make such a claim, and you can't assume the laws of nature that applies to the 4% of the Universe we know of, is consistent with the 96% of the Universe that we are unfamiliar with.abelcainsbrother wrote:Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:I noticed you enunciated the word "all". Does this means this applies to God as well?abelcainsbrother wrote: ALL things have a cause and all things that are caused are caused by something else and all things are willed into existence
What about outside our world?abelcainsbrother wrote:and ask them can they name anything in our world that does not apply to these facts
KSo I am denying the "facts of reality"? What facts do you have that support your claims?abelcainsbrother wrote:No,it does not apply to God.I know you don't believe the bible but we do not believe in a created God liked some do our God is eternal and this is even more reason to believe in him because he can create universes easy and yet you are still using your imagination to deny the facts of the reality around youWhen you say “in this world” are you referring only to plant Earth? Or am I expected to assume you meant something different (like the entire Universe) and respond to that?abelcainsbrother wrote:Name something in this world that does not apply to the facts.
Ken
The entire cosmos is apart of our world.Let's see cups,plates,doors,hope,faith,love,fear,hurricanes,tornadoes,the sun,moon,stars,tsunamis,evolution,cans,windows,atoms,cells,buildings,houses,children,life,death,pain,pleasure,dogs,cats,horses,etc Everything. ALL things have a cause and all things that are caused are caused by something else and all things are willed into existence.And just because you choose to overlook these facts and the requirements for these facts does not mean you should use your imagination to believe things that defy logic,reason and reality,you must have God for these to be facts.
Ken,Ken wrote:
When you say “in this world” are you referring only to plant Earth? Or am I expected to assume you meant something different (like the entire Universe) and respond to that?
Ken
Okay; you got me on that one. Good catch my friend!RickD wrote:Ken,Ken wrote:
When you say “in this world” are you referring only to plant Earth? Or am I expected to assume you meant something different (like the entire Universe) and respond to that?
Ken
I think he's referring to animal earth as well as plant earth. But what do plants have to do with anything?