Evidence for God from Science

American Atheist society defines atheism as: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

Majority of online Dictionaries agree with the Free Dictionary definition of atheism as: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

So much of the discussion revolves around defining what a lack of belief in god/gods is and how is that different from not being a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods?

This is simply doublespeak.

Lack simply means: the state of being without or not having enough of something.

So if atheism is a lack of belief in gods. then atheist are saying they have state of being without, or not having enough, belief in god or gods.

How is that different from disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods? -- I do not know.

So if atheism is simply a state of being without, or not having enough, belief in god. Then that means they are searching for God.

Talk about confusing...
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So what's an agnostic?

I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.

Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?

I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.

You pretty much got the basics of it.

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?

I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.

You pretty much got the basics of it.

Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.

Storyteller wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?

I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.

You pretty much got the basics of it.

Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.

Because he's a fool.

Psalms 14:1

Storyteller wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?

I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.

You pretty much got the basics of it.

Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.

Because they probably haven't experienced God or haven't realized it yet. People don't believe in God or not believe in him because of simple logic. At the back of it is, reason and experience merged together. That is why you don't accept Krishna, the Hindu God and don't Identify with Allah, is the same way an atheist doesn't accept Christ.

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?

I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.

You pretty much got the basics of it.

Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.

Because he's a fool.

Psalms 14:1

Not really, not always.

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?

I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.

You pretty much got the basics of it.

Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.

Because he's a fool.

Psalms 14:1

Not really, not always.

Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.

And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

RickD wrote: You pretty much got the basics of it.

Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.

Because he's a fool.

Psalms 14:1

Not really, not always.

Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.

And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.

It's not that simple. Logic and reason are utterly the wrong reasons to believe in a God (since a belief in a theistic God, in general, is useless), and that is quite apparent with the (non-believer) lot that actually tries to believe in God in that way and fails. To believe in God requires faith at a point where logic and reason fails.

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote: Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.

Because he's a fool.

Psalms 14:1

Not really, not always.

Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.

And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.

It's not that simple. Logic and reason are utterly the wrong reasons to believe in a God (since a belief in a theistic God, in general, is useless), and that is quite apparent with the (non-believer) lot that actually tries to believe in God in that way and fails. To believe in God requires faith at a point where logic and reason fails.

Then I take it you're not a fan of The Logical Arguments for the Existence of God?

Belief in a theistic God is most certainly not useless. If someone can be shown by logic, that God exists, he may then be open to see that the God of the bible exists. Some people are more logically driven(scientific types), and can see the existence of God through logic.

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote: Because he's a fool.

Psalms 14:1

Not really, not always.

Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.

And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.

It's not that simple. Logic and reason are utterly the wrong reasons to believe in a God (since a belief in a theistic God, in general, is useless), and that is quite apparent with the (non-believer) lot that actually tries to believe in God in that way and fails. To believe in God requires faith at a point where logic and reason fails.

Then I take it you're not a fan of The Logical Arguments for the Existence of God?

Belief in a theistic God is most certainly not useless. If someone can be shown by logic, that God exists, he may then be open to see that the God of the bible exists. Some people are more logically driven(scientific types), and can see the existence of God through logic.

It's not about being a fan of this or that. At best these take you to a deist God. What then? you need faith at some point and that is where logic won't help. Does logic help that a man walked on water or rose up from the grave or made water to wine or raised the dead? do you have logic for that?

In my talks on and off this forum, what I have come to believe is that there may be a very tiny group who solely believe in God by logic or reason, but the majority just wrap it up in intellectuality to give it a nice presentation. Internally we don't believe in God because it makes sense logically but rather what we experience of God. That experience weighs more than any logic. And the same goes for non-believers. It's not more about logic, it's about your experience of God.

Anyway, to the main point, not everyone who doesn't believe in God is a fool. That verse is David's experience and from what I understand, he might be more inclined to be talking about apostasy than atheism. But even if he isn't it's still a very general statement, applying it wholesale on everyone sounds fairly ill-assumed.

Before I came to find Christ, I believed in God. It was totally and utterly logical for me, nothing else made as much sense so I disagree about logic not being used to believe in God.
I have pondered on the Big Bang (God thinking the universe into existence, the ultimate flash of inspiration), science, for me, points to God. Sure, my faith is important but logic and reason form part of that faith.

neo-x wrote:It's not about being a fan of this or that. At best these take you to a deist God.

How do you figure? Rather, it would necessarily lead to a timeless, immaterial, omnipotent, omniscient, unique, and intelligent entity.

neo-x wrote:you need faith at some point and that is where logic won't help. Does logic help that a man walked on water or rose up from the grave or made water to wine or raised the dead? do you have logic for that?

I agree with you there, that's a matter of revelation. But you gotta start somewhere ...

Byblos wrote:

neo-x wrote:It's not about being a fan of this or that. At best these take you to a deist God.

How do you figure? Rather, it would necessarily lead to a timeless, immaterial, omnipotent, omniscient, unique, and intelligent entity.

neo-x wrote:you need faith at some point and that is where logic won't help. Does logic help that a man walked on water or rose up from the grave or made water to wine or raised the dead? do you have logic for that?

I agree with you there, that's a matter of revelation. But you gotta start somewhere ...

I agree Byblos. That's what I'm saying. And,that's what the logical arguments for God, are saying.

neo wrote:
Anyway, to the main point, not everyone who doesn't believe in God is a fool...

That wasn't the main point Neo.

Storyteller asked about people who "categorically state there is no God".
There's a difference between "categorically stating there is no God", and simply "not believing in God".

I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't believe, is a fool. Scripture doesn't say that. Scripture says "the fool says there is no God".

And I agree with you rick.

There is a huge difference between saying there is no God and not believing in God.