What is the point of life?

[B. W.]

...Because I would see no sense in living on since anything I do is irrelevant - both in this life and in the after life. There would be no end goal, no hope, mercy, love or justice for those who didn't do well in this life.

Not to mention that all of that would be a result of crude coincidence, a natural selection, luck. If they had more of it(luck), what a life that would be...

Oh, right... An irrelevant one. Awaited only by nothing.

Well, I would be too depressed to do anything since nothing matters. I couldn't be angry on some immoral acts or injustices since there is nothing to compare them to. Much like in nature. You can't say that nature is evil for killing thousands of people with her earthquakes or whatnot. It is in nature's nature. It's a normal thing. I feel like I could continue to write for another half an hour but I'll stop here.

Thank you for the gift but I don't want to accept it, eh? Would that be a valid answer?

Ice, you are talking about ending your life - - I take such comments serious no matter the context. If you are really feeling that depressed and contemplating this, what city do you live? There are folks who can help you get thru this. Can you call a crisis hotline, anything.

Again, your life has value because of the one who gave it to you values you enough to come a reach for you so you two can walk together and discover your omni-personal value. John 3:16, Rom 10:12,13...

Even if you are playing a game here, speaking in such tone is still a serious matter, so I ask, if you are, please refrain from this tone. OK?

Are you OK?
-
-
-

[Audie]

Edward: Ice, literally everything that B.W. ever says about atheism is false. He doesn't understand atheism and he doesn't want to. He'd rather just make something up.

What a statement to make, Ed - apparently you do not know that B.W. spent much of his own life as a militant atheist. I'd say he intimately understands how atheists think and well knows all of their many assertions and supposedly intellectual arguments. So, Ice, please just ignore Ed's ridiculous comment.

That makes it the more mysterious how he could get it so wrong.

Of course, most "atheists" militant or otherwise, are just people who make forays into "disbelief", but who are still emotionally tethered to the mother church.

[PaulSacramento]

I don't think that Ice is stating that he is suicidal BW, I think he is stating that, in his opinion, if all there is is what is HERE and NOW, that life would be meaningless.

[Audie]

Audie wrote:
I know that Christians think their bible is special, that they got lucky and picked the right god. From my pov, that is what they all say.

You know that, do you?

There you go making a false assumption about an entire group of people. And again, the hypocrisy is obvious.

So, are you just attempting to play gotcha for its own sake?

Perhaps you have a list, of "Christians" who dont think their bible and religion is somehow "special"? Who feel they'd have done as well to have been of any other faith, or none at all?

Demonstrate, svp, any falsehood or "hypocrisy".

(the "they all say" refers to people of all other religions who feel think got the right one)

[RickD]

Audie wrote:
I know that Christians think their bible is special, that they got lucky and picked the right god. From my pov, that is what they all say.

You know that, do you?

There you go making a false assumption about an entire group of people. And again, the hypocrisy is obvious.

So, are you just attempting to play gotcha for its own sake?

Perhaps you have a list, of "Christians" who dont think their bible and religion is somehow "special"? Who feel they'd have done as well to have been of any other faith, or none at all?

Demonstrate, svp, any falsehood or "hypocrisy".

(the "they all say" refers to people of all other religions who feel think got the right one)

No Audie, I'm not playing "gotcha". I'm trying to show you that you did the same thing that you get upset about, when you think someone else does it to you.

That's the hypocrisy.

I don't know any Christians who think they got lucky and picked the right god. Luck has nothing to do with it. God, the only God, chose us. He knocked on the door, and I opened it. And he's knocking on your door, calling to you. But you're too stubborn to open the door, and let Him in. The Creator of the universe wants you to respond to Him. He died for you, and rose again, so that YOU may have everlasting life. But you refuse to believe.

No Audie, there's no luck involved.

Just the loving creator humbled himself, and died for YOU Audie. Now won't you humble yourself, and believe on Him?

[Philip]

For the sake of argument, let's say there IS a Creator God, that He is the ONLY God (as there are no others), and that He is the Super Intelligence behind the Universe, that He created the certainty and reality of life, has prolifically communicated with man, through many prophets, from different cultures, places and times (all of whom are on the same page, btw, as to precisely WHOM they assert that God to be - incredible in and of itself). So, despite the fact that there is this ONE God, whom gives plentiful prophetic evidences that His communications are authentically from Him, Whom has provided mountains of evidence that a lack of such a Being could account for all we observe - and despite all of this, people have created any number of false gods and practices, even belief that NO gods or God exist, or even are necessary or relevant. So, this one God exists and the rest are all fictions and imaginations of man. That is either true or it is not - which means it is totally irrelevant however many other FALSE gods one insists Christians have chosen from. IF there is only one God, then it is entirely bogus to suggest the issue legitimately should be a multiple choice question.

And yet, in a different way, the question of God IS a multiple-choice one - yet with only two possible choices. That is, do you accept/embrace Him or do you avoid/reject Him/insist He does not exist/refuse to sincerely seek for Him, so as to believe whatever you so wish/do whatever you so like?

[IceMobster]

Then it ends and there is no point to it all anyway

Is it possible that if a person is deliberately obtuse for long enough he becomes incapable of being otherwise? Does the deliberate part just fade away, leaving him irrevocably, but unconsciously, dense?

And to Ice,

This is for you. Don't kill yourself.

Finally, you say something that makes sense.

No, Ice, don't kill yourself. Not because of all the religious stuff, or because of all the garbage B.W. is making up about atheism, but because you're alive, you have the capacity to experience joy, wonder, and love, and you have the freedom to seek those things out. You only get one life and when it's over it's over, so seize the day, suck the marrow from the bones, and die with a smile on your face, knowing that you've truly lived.

You uncovered the atheism dilemma - they defend nothingness because in the end, the universe will someday implode.

Not only is that untrue, it's not even a dilemma.

Ice, literally everything that B.W. ever says about atheism is false. He doesn't understand atheism and he doesn't want to. He'd rather just make something up.

I didn't get the sense that you actually planned to end your life, but yeah, don't. It's a poor idea. If you don't think your life has meaning then get a dog. [/quote]
WELL, S#%&! The first one who gets it. I should probably put this in my signature or frame it because no matter how many times I post it, there always comes someone who tells me: "Don't kill yourself."

Anyway, "He doesn't understand atheism and he doesn't want to. He'd rather just make something up."
Explain it to me better, then. Please.

@Icemobster
No one should believe in God because there is an afterlife, period.

I am amused you are trying to appeal to this to point out the "atheist dilemma". They don't have this dilemma. It's like asking a fish about the charms of travelling on land and if they reply they don't care, you think they have a dilemma.

Seriously?

I think it's quite insulting to say that an atheist should kill him or herself because they don't think there is an afterlife.

I said I would do so if I became an atheist. Sorry for insulting you (or anyone). That was not my intention.
Anyway, I am not sure such allegory can be given to correctly describe the theism and atheism situation?
Could you explain the first sentence, please? How do you see the afterlife, then?

Edward: Ice, literally everything that B.W. ever says about atheism is false. He doesn't understand atheism and he doesn't want to. He'd rather just make something up.

What a statement to make, Ed - apparently you do not know that B.W. spent much of his own life as a militant atheist. I'd say he intimately understands how atheists think and well knows all of their many assertions and supposedly intellectual arguments. So, Ice, please just ignore Ed's ridiculous comment.

I don't think it is correct to ignore someone's opinion. Not to mention that the reason I made this topic is to get that better insight in what their opinion is.
If you don't agree with my first sentence, take a look at what Diogenes of Sinope had done. He started barking because people wouldn't listen up until the point he did so(Note how I do not want to be the one not listening). Not to mention what he did with his lantern, haha.

Why do you believe it to be the truth?

Because of all the God claims I’ve heard, none of the sound credible.

Let me ask you a question; If the destination is the only thing that is important, why get married, read a good book, see a movie, or even make friends if its all irrelevant?

Ken

Likewise, if it is only about the journey, all is irrelevant anyway.
The conclusion would be that both journey and destination are relevant. However, you do not conclude so...

...Because I would see no sense in living on since anything I do is irrelevant - both in this life and in the after life. There would be no end goal, no hope, mercy, love or justice for those who didn't do well in this life.

Not to mention that all of that would be a result of crude coincidence, a natural selection, luck. If they had more of it(luck), what a life that would be...

Oh, right... An irrelevant one. Awaited only by nothing.

Well, I would be too depressed to do anything since nothing matters. I couldn't be angry on some immoral acts or injustices since there is nothing to compare them to. Much like in nature. You can't say that nature is evil for killing thousands of people with her earthquakes or whatnot. It is in nature's nature. It's a normal thing. I feel like I could continue to write for another half an hour but I'll stop here.

Thank you for the gift but I don't want to accept it, eh? Would that be a valid answer?

Ice, you are talking about ending your life - - I take such comments serious no matter the context. If you are really feeling that depressed and contemplating this, what city do you live? There are folks who can help you get thru this. Can you call a crisis hotline, anything.

Again, your life has value because of the one who gave it to you values you enough to come a reach for you so you two can walk together and discover your omni-personal value. John 3:16, Rom 10:12,13...

Even if you are playing a game here, speaking in such tone is still a serious matter, so I ask, if you are, please refrain from this tone. OK?

Are you OK?
-
-
-

I will not refrain from such tone because it is not a suicidal tone but a hypothetical one. Yeah, I am fine.

I don't think that Ice is stating that he is suicidal BW, I think he is stating that, in his opinion, if all there is is what is HERE and NOW, that life would be meaningless.

Exactly.

[Audie]

Audie wrote:
I know that Christians think their bible is special, that they got lucky and picked the right god. From my pov, that is what they all say.

You know that, do you?

There you go making a false assumption about an entire group of people. And again, the hypocrisy is obvious.

So, are you just attempting to play gotcha for its own sake?

Perhaps you have a list, of "Christians" who dont think their bible and religion is somehow "special"? Who feel they'd have done as well to have been of any other faith, or none at all?

Demonstrate, svp, any falsehood or "hypocrisy".

(the "they all say" refers to people of all other religions who feel think got the right one)

No Audie, I'm not playing "gotcha". I'm trying to show you that you did the same thing that you get upset about, when you think someone else does it to you.

That's the hypocrisy.

I don't know any Christians who think they got lucky and picked the right god. Luck has nothing to do with it. God, the only God, chose us. He knocked on the door, and I opened it.

Ah so, "good fortune" then.

No false assumptionality on my part. Still, it is well for me to avoid such, and to the extent that I may have drifted into bad habits, I will seek to improve myself by not doing so in the future. I dont at all consider myself a hypocrite, nor inconsistent, or well not more inconsistent than is consistent with how I am; so considering that, Im pretty consistent.

[Audie]

For the sake of argument, let's say there IS a Creator God, that He is the ONLY God (as there are no others), and that He is the Super Intelligence behind the Universe, that He created the certainty and reality of life, has prolifically communicated with man, through many prophets, from different cultures, places and times (all of whom are on the same page, btw, as to precisely WHOM they assert that God to be - incredible in and of itself). So, despite the fact that there is this ONE God, whom gives plentiful prophetic evidences that His communications are authentically from Him, Whom has provided mountains of evidence that a lack of such a Being could account for all we observe - and despite all of this, people have created any number of false gods and practices, even belief that NO gods or God exist, or even are necessary or relevant. So, this one God exists and the rest are all fictions and imaginations of man. That is either true or it is not - which means it is totally irrelevant however many other FALSE gods one insists Christians have chosen from. IF there is only one God, then it is entirely bogus to suggest the issue legitimately should be a multiple choice question.

And yet, in a different way, the question of God IS a multiple-choice one - yet with only two possible choices. That is, do you accept/embrace Him or do you avoid/reject Him/insist He does not exist/refuse to sincerely seek for Him, so as to believe whatever you so wish/do whatever you so like?

I wonder why Christians are so into binary thinking.

[Philip]

Audie: I wonder why Christians are so into binary thinking.

The implication is that non-binary thinking is more open-minded. So, does that non-binary thinking not also include the possibility that there is only ONE God? If not, why not? Does non-binary thinking believe ANYTHING can be false? Or can only ALL things be true? Which is it - or, which ONES are there? Please be specific to answer the questions, because a thing or belief is either inclusive or not. You just can't be open to something being both true and not true. A multitude of mere POSSIBILITIES does not additionally mean that there also can be only ONE truth about a particular matter. This is Logic 101. Not metaphysics 401.

[Audie]

Audie: I wonder why Christians are so into binary thinking.

The implication is that non-binary thinking is more open-minded. So, does that non-binary thinking not also include the possibility that there is only ONE God? If not, why not? Does non-binary thinking believe ANYTHING can be false? Or can only ALL things be true? Which is it - or, which ONES are there? Please be specific to answer the questions, because a thing or belief is either inclusive or not. You just can't be open to something being both true and not true. A multitude of mere POSSIBILITIES does not additionally mean that there also can be only ONE truth about a particular matter. This is Logic 101. Not metaphysics 401.

Naw. I jsus implicated that there are often more than two possibilities, and that Christians seem oddly attached to binary thinking.

Of course there is a possibility that there is a god. Only one, several, whatever.

How about the possibility that there isnt?

Some things are binary, others are not; of course there is true / false, nothing else possible.

Some things are false. Some true. Tough to be true and flase at the same time This hardly needs discussion does it?

Do you not think Christians are rather given to binary thinking?

[Philip]

Audie: Of course there is a possibility that there is a god. Only one, several, whatever.

Then, if you believe this, then YOU are NOT a non-binary thinker.

Your use of binary accuses of narrow-minded as to the possibilities to only an either/or possibility for a given scenario. But then you make the above statement, which shows you to be INCLUSIVE of the actual possibilities - meaning, you are NOT a non-binary thinker. As well, there ARE many things which I do not know about, of which the POSSIBILITIES, indeed, are very substantial in number, and yet of which the actual reality - THE truth can only be one thing. Again, Logic 101, the fallacy of non-contradiction - a thing can't simultaneously be both true and not true. For every thing, every event, every issue, the reality is there is ONE truth about that, EVEN IF, there is a multitude of possibilities or even opinions as to that, yes, ONE truth. Again, the number of OPINIONS and the sometimes limitless POSSIBILITIES are irrelevant - as there can and IS only ONE true about a thing or scenario. Now, as to whether we have accurately gauged that truth is another matter entirely.

[Byblos]

Of course there is a possibility that there is a god. Only one, several, whatever.

No. There can be one and only one.

How about the possibility that there isnt?

Then you have much bigger problems, like contending with the law of non-contradiction.

Do you not think Christians are rather given to binary thinking?

I only use binary thinking when I have to translate to binary code.

[Audie]

Audie: Of course there is a possibility that there is a god. Only one, several, whatever.

Then, if you believe this, then YOU are NOT a non-binary thinker.

Your use of binary accuses of narrow-minded as to the possibilities to only an either possibility for a given scenario. But then you make the above statement, which shows you to be INCLUSIVE of the actual possibilities - meaning, you are NOT a non-binary thinker. As well, there ARE many things which I do not know about, of which the POSSIBILITIES, indeed, are very substantial in number, and yet of which the actual reality - THE truth can only be one thing. Again, Logic 101, the fallacy of non-contradiction - a thing can't simultaneously be both true and not true. For every think, every event, every issue, the reality is there is ONE truth about that, EVEN IF, there is a multitude of possibilities or even opinions as to that, yes, ONE truth. Again, the number of OPINIONS and the sometimes limitless POSSIBILITIES are irrelevant - as there can and IS only ONE true about a thing or scenario. Now, as to whether we have accurately gauged that truth is another matter entirely.

As applied to your post!

[Philip]

Philip: Now, as to whether we have accurately gauged that truth is another matter entirely.

Audie: As applied to your post!

OK, so, if you believe a truth is unknowable, as to it's reality, and that your opinion is that such a truth is definitely unknowable - as opposed to knowable - is that itself not binary thinking - as you are dismissing the possibility or being ridiculing and dismissive of the possibility that it can be other than what YOU say that truth cannot include (that there can only be ONE truth/binary thinking). You either believe, as you've said, the actual truth, whether unknowable or not, MUST include a specific fact or actuality being true (as opposed to MULTIPLE ones) - so you are either dismissive of this or not. Binary thinking would be insistent that there can be but ONE truth amongst countless POSSIBLE truths. Non-binary would insist that there can be multiple, simultaneous TRUTHS - which you've agreed is impossible. Your very insistence that binary thinking is wrong is in itself, binary thinking. See your dilemma?

To further and redundantly strain a gnat, you just can't say there is but ONE actual truth while also insisting to the contrary ("There is NO ONE truth!"). All anyone can honestly say is: 1) there MUST be ONE truth about a thing or matter/there can't be multiple ones, and 2) that this truth COULD be knowable, while 3) conceivably, it also might NOT be a knowable or findable truth, and 4) whatever the actuality of whether this thing is true or not, you WILL weigh the evidences and believe about it in some certain way (true/not true/possibly true/possibly knowable/impossible to know now/possible that we may know in the future/likely we can and will NEVER know the actuality. And, yes, according to how you have historically asserted "binary thinking," this is what it is: There IS A truth whether we do, don't, can, or cannot know it! Non-binary thinking, as Audie defines it, would deny this basic point of logic.

It is irrelevant as to HOW MANY possibilities there may be concerning a thing or fact, as to whether it is or isn't true. It also matters not a bit, as to the truth of something, as to whether or not we can actually KNOW that truth - it's either true or not, regardless of opinion, our ability to find or know it, etc. What matters is that there can be but ONE truth - yep, that's binary thinking per Audie. But it's also basic logic. People confuse possibilities with the fact there can only be one truth. They also confuse our ability to know a truth with whether any one truth of a thing or matter actually exists.