Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

RickD wrote:

Storyteller wrote:Billy Goats Gruff?

The troll under the bridge?

And there is a bridge near where I live and im clumsy.

Nope. Never heard of it.

I googling I will go, a googling I will go...

Seriously?

You never heard of it?

Heathen.

I don't read books. Books are boring.

The Bible is not boring!

Audacity wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:@Audacity, re: Scripture I can only assume this issue is personal in some way.

Not at all. It's just something that occurred to me, so I put it out here to find out what others thought about it.

Re: the passages, you can always look up the original language in a lexicon.

You mean one is expected to go through the entire Bible looking up every word, and every time it appears? Of course not. People rely on their Bible as is, expecting its translations to be correct.

Yes, you should look back to the original language if you want to have deeper understanding.

You touch on a good thing. What is the meaning and how to gain understanding of what is written.
Really, however, the issue you raise barely touches the surface -- because this is actually an entire "sea" of enquiry.

People dedicate their lives and profession to linguistics and hermeneutics (methods of interpretation) and the like;
how to translate using the best words into this or that language, and there's also understanding the intended meaning of the original author, who they are, their audience, what they're trying to say and the like.

They do this work so that such can be put in the hands of lay people like yourself, others and myself. So that we can gain a quick and largely accurate understanding of what is being said in our own language. So of course, if there is a questionable passage, a word or sentence comes to your attention in a translation which doesn't seem entirely correct... then yes go to the original language.

If you do a serious compare legitimate more objective translations, then I'm entirely confident you'll find the meanings are largely kept intact. However, yes, by all means... if you suspect something is up or not right, then look up the lexicon. Take a look at the many commentaries written by theologians over the years, many can be obtained online and found in software like E-Sword or The Word. Welcome to just one area of theology friend, which once reserved for scholars is more and more being placed in the hands of lay people.

God used an imperfect tool, with imperfect creatures, to reveal spiritual truths.
An appropriate polar question to your own to ask I think would be if the words in Scripture are really so distorted and unclear, then how could a large majority of Christians read a similar message and come to much agreement.

Kurieuo wrote:An appropriate polar question to your own to ask I think would be if the words in Scripture are really so distorted and unclear, then how could a large majority of Christians read a similar message and come to much agreement.

They're all striving toward the same goals: solace, reassurance, comfort, consolation, relief, hope, inspiration, succor, protection, etc., and a way to avoid the hell that god has insured they will go to if they don't do X, Y, and Z. All of them thinking their particular beliefs will do this when the others won't, or at least will do it better.

Audacity wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:An appropriate polar question to your own to ask I think would be if the words in Scripture are really so distorted and unclear, then how could a large majority of Christians read a similar message and come to much agreement.

They're all striving toward the same goals: solace, reassurance, comfort, consolation, relief, hope, inspiration, succor, protection, etc., and a way to avoid the hell that god has insured they will go to if they don't do X, Y, and Z. All of them thinking their particular beliefs will do this when the others won't, or at least do it better.

I'm curious...

What are the three things, X, Y, and Z, that we must do to avoid hell, in your opinion?

Audacity wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:An appropriate polar question to your own to ask I think would be if the words in Scripture are really so distorted and unclear, then how could a large majority of Christians read a similar message and come to much agreement.

They're all striving toward the same goals: solace, reassurance, comfort, consolation, relief, hope, inspiration, succor, protection, etc., and a way to avoid the hell that god has insured they will go to if they don't do X, Y, and Z. All of them thinking their particular beliefs will do this when the others won't, or at least do it better.

There's a little irony here, that I find agreement with your sentiments which is basically:

• Christianity, as a way to avoid Hell unless dong X, Y, and Z, sucks ****.

Would it surprise you to know probably 99% of Christians here would agree?
Any Christian who disagrees are free speak up, Melanie?

Further still, I say and argue any who "believe" to simply avoid "Hell" will be lost.
Why? Because what is important is for us to love and believe in our hearts. From Old to New it is the heart that God always desired. (Deut 30:6; Romans 2:29) God doesn't desire religious works or empty words. (Matt 15:8; Hosea 6:6)

Some might argue otherwise, but belief is of the heart. God desires a pure and sincere heart even though we're imperfect and often even disappoint and fail ourselves:

• Romans 10:9-10
  "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."
  
  1 Timothy 1:5:
  5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

Consider what is said of Israel in Acts 28:27, it's an understanding with our hearts that brings one turn to receive healing from God. Threats of Hell and doing X, Y and Z play no part unless the heart is there, and then it's one's heart that counts for anything.

• For this people's heart has grown dull,
  and with their ears they can barely hear,
  and their eyes they have closed;
  lest they should see with their eyes
  and hear with their ears
  and understand with their heart
  and turn, and I would heal them.

Re: desiring solace, comfort and the like.

You know, I guess the world can be evil, harsh and cruel.
I also see in the world much good, beauty and love that I equally recognise.
Between the two, concepts of justice, maturing and personal integrity are had.
I intuitively embrace these concepts as meaningful and real, just like everyone I've met does.
It might be reassuring for me to believe in such concepts, I can't rip them out of my human nature.
So either I embrace them make peace with such concepts as being real and meaningful.
Such does provide me with the most comfort, relief, hope for humanity and the world.
Optionally, I can live my life pretending there is really no meaning in such things,
and thereby become a walking contradiction within myself and to hell with anything.

Wish fulfillment shows an emptiness within us that could be met.
Thirst is quenched with water. Hunger with food. Hurt with love. Darkness with light. Nothing with something.
What the REAL substance that fulfills our desire for meaning, hope in the world for justice, fairness and all those concepts I just mentioned which seem an innate part of who we are.

Audacity wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:OK but you come into a Christian forum and expect not to hear preaching?

Yup. But it looks like my mistake, and I'll have to go into ignore mode when it pops up.

I was just telling you the truth after I had already explained and given you answers to your question about the different translations.It is really not the problem you seem to make it into.For the most part you can read the bible yourself and understand it clearly,it is probably rare that you might need to look deeper.

Alot of people claim that they can't understand the KJV but I understand it,however I have other options with translations I can refer to if I choose to.I prefer the KJV myself because I feel like there was less of a bias back then and I like how it is a strong worded translation,especially in the new testament,but I also have other translations I read too. I also have several Strong's Hebrew/Greek concordances also.

I know you probably don't realize it but the bible is a vast book that covers alot of subjects and there is so much to discover in it and alot of info to dig out of it and I learn new things all the time and it is interesting stuff too,not boring like you might think.

RickD wrote:

Audacity wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:An appropriate polar question to your own to ask I think would be if the words in Scripture are really so distorted and unclear, then how could a large majority of Christians read a similar message and come to much agreement.

They're all striving toward the same goals: solace, reassurance, comfort, consolation, relief, hope, inspiration, succor, protection, etc., and a way to avoid the hell that god has insured they will go to if they don't do X, Y, and Z. All of them thinking their particular beliefs will do this when the others won't, or at least do it better.

I'm curious...

What are the three things, X, Y, and Z, that we must do to avoid hell, in your opinion?

I put it that way so people can fill in whatever their belief dictates.

Kurieuo wrote:

• Christianity, as a way to avoid Hell unless dong X, Y, and Z, sucks ****.

Would it surprise you to know probably 99% of Christians here would agree?

Knowing something about Christianity and Christians, not at all.

Audacity wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

• Christianity, as a way to avoid Hell unless dong X, Y, and Z, sucks ****.

Would it surprise you to know probably 99% of Christians here would agree?

Knowing something about Christianity and Christians, not at all.

I'd say such need to be in a Christianity 101 course, or they're just so use to using meaningless religious terms and phrases that they don't know the substance behind such. Like, me, once upon a time 20+ years ago.

That said I was talking about the Christians on this board though.
They all appear to have a more substantial understanding.