Evidence for God from Science

"unbelief in Christ being a sin" -- Never thought of it as Sinning -- it's more of an attitude? being sinful is doing something that is displeasing to God. An action? thought? If a person grows up in another belief system and they have not been approached with Christianity, yet. Are they sinning by virtue of believing in that other system? They Are sinning by virtue of Not accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- but if they don't Know about that gift -- if they are killed -- God already knows that they Won't be accepting in the future. Or He will allow them to live Until they have heard and accepted.

Unless the state of unbelief is out of rebellion -- the person Has heard and scoffs at what he Does hear. Hearing and choosing to reject -- ---- in the Bible -- New Testament -- Saul was an active rebel and God reached down to him and touched him and Paul became a Strong Christian -- was chosen by God to write several books in the New Testament. He Also suffered greatly in the process OF sharing Scripture.

Just some thoughts.

They don't write them like they used to. The Sin of Unbelief-Spurgeon

RickD wrote:Well Stu,

If you don't think unbelief in Christ is a sin, then I guess we have nothing further to discuss here.

You missed:

"But belief in Christ as your saviour IS required in order to go to heaven. If you do not believe that Christ died for your sins then you will not go to heaven."

Stu is right you have to believe is Jesus Christ as your savior to go to heaven.

the bible says that if you believe in Jesus then you are going to heaven and if you do not believe then you are going to hell. The bible did not say unless you believed at one time. It just said if you believe you are going to heaven so if you do not believe then you are not going to heaven.

RickD is right that we are not saved by works.

What works are though is evidence that you are saved or evidence you are not.

Jesus said a good tree can not produce bad fruit and a bad tree can not produce good fruit.

So if we are producing good fruit then we can not be a bad tree and if we are producing bad fruit then we can not be a good tree.

if that statement about the fruit trees is wrong then Jesus lied.

crochet1949 sorry I did not answer you sooner but I wasn't on the internet over the week end.

I do not know if there is a difference in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost but if when we are saved we have the Holy Spirit in our life then it is different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Who do know that well like I said earlier Paul asked if they were Filled cense they were saved and the people he was talking to said no then he told them about Jesus and they were saved then after they were saved he lad hands on them and they were fill with the Holy Ghost.

Not only that but we know that after Jesus died on the cross and ross again that at that point me could be saved, but Jesus stayed on earth something tike 40 days after he ross from the dead. He said that he had to go so the Confider could come. So that means that people was getting saved for at lest 80 day with out being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because it was 40 days from when Jesus left that the upper room experience happened (my time periods may be off a little I have not read that part in a while but the concept is right). So if a Christian has the Holy Spirit at the time of solvation then that has to be different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because people were already getting saved before the upper room experience happened. That would mean that they were saved with out being filled at the same time.

jpbg33 wrote:Stu is right you have to believe is Jesus Christ as your savior to go to heaven.

the bible says that if you believe in Jesus then you are going to heaven and if you do not believe then you are going to hell. The bible did not say unless you believed at one time. It just said if you believe you are going to heaven so if you do not believe then you are not going to heaven.

RickD is right that we are not saved by works.

What works are though is evidence that you are saved or evidence you are not.

Jesus said a good tree can not produce bad fruit and a bad tree can not produce good fruit.

So if we are producing good fruit then we can not be a bad tree and if we are producing bad fruit then we can not be a good tree.

if that statement about the fruit trees is wrong then Jesus lied.

crochet1949 sorry I did not answer you sooner but I wasn't on the internet over the week end.

I do not know if there is a difference in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost but if when we are saved we have the Holy Spirit in our life then it is different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Who do know that well like I said earlier Paul asked if they were Filled cense they were saved and the people he was talking to said no then he told them about Jesus and they were saved then after they were saved he lad hands on them and they were fill with the Holy Ghost.

Not only that but we know that after Jesus died on the cross and ross again that at that point me could be saved, but Jesus stayed on earth something tike 40 days after he ross from the dead. He said that he had to go so the Confider could come. So that means that people was getting saved for at lest 80 day with out being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because it was 40 days from when Jesus left that the upper room experience happened (my time periods may be off a little I have not read that part in a while but the concept is right). So if a Christian has the Holy Spirit at the time of solvation then that has to be different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because people were already getting saved before the upper room experience happened. That would mean that they were saved with out being filled at the same time.

jpbg33 wrote:Stu is right you have to believe is Jesus Christ as your savior to go to heaven.

the bible says that if you believe in Jesus then you are going to heaven and if you do not believe then you are going to hell. The bible did not say unless you believed at one time. It just said if you believe you are going to heaven so if you do not believe then you are not going to heaven.

RickD is right that we are not saved by works.

What works are though is evidence that you are saved or evidence you are not.

Jesus said a good tree can not produce bad fruit and a bad tree can not produce good fruit.

So if we are producing good fruit then we can not be a bad tree and if we are producing bad fruit then we can not be a good tree.

if that statement about the fruit trees is wrong then Jesus lied.

crochet1949 sorry I did not answer you sooner but I wasn't on the internet over the week end.

I do not know if there is a difference in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost but if when we are saved we have the Holy Spirit in our life then it is different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Who do know that well like I said earlier Paul asked if they were Filled cense they were saved and the people he was talking to said no then he told them about Jesus and they were saved then after they were saved he lad hands on them and they were fill with the Holy Ghost.

Not only that but we know that after Jesus died on the cross and ross again that at that point me could be saved, but Jesus stayed on earth something tike 40 days after he ross from the dead. He said that he had to go so the Confider could come. So that means that people was getting saved for at lest 80 day with out being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because it was 40 days from when Jesus left that the upper room experience happened (my time periods may be off a little I have not read that part in a while but the concept is right). So if a Christian has the Holy Spirit at the time of solvation then that has to be different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because people were already getting saved before the upper room experience happened. That would mean that they were saved with out being filled at the same time.

In the Old Testament -- people looked Towards the cross -- had faith in the future coming and dying of Jesus Christ and that He would rise again. When They died - they went to Abraham's bosom to Wait until Jesus Christ went to get them after He had died and had them with Him when He ascended back to heaven. And those who Didn't trust in the coming Jesus Christ died and went to Hades / the Other compartment in Abraham's Bosom.

The Holy Spirit is the correct term. Not "Ghost". Some people believe in a 2nd blessing. There IS a prayer language that Paul speaks of. There are times when a person is reading Scripture that the Holy Spirit really speaks to them -- I've had that happen. All of a sudden a passage that I've read 'how many times' -- the Holy Spirit impresses something 'new' to me.

At various times we Will feel 'closer' to God -- be more 'filled'. And then our 'spiritual' tank gets lower and could use more spiritual meat and potatoes.

BTW -- it's 'rose' rather than 'ross' and Comforter rather than Confider.

jpbg33 wrote:Stu is right you have to believe is Jesus Christ as your savior to go to heaven.

the bible says that if you believe in Jesus then you are going to heaven and if you do not believe then you are going to hell. The bible did not say unless you believed at one time. It just said if you believe you are going to heaven so if you do not believe then you are not going to heaven.

RickD is right that we are not saved by works.

What works are though is evidence that you are saved or evidence you are not.

Jesus said a good tree can not produce bad fruit and a bad tree can not produce good fruit.

So if we are producing good fruit then we can not be a bad tree and if we are producing bad fruit then we can not be a good tree.

if that statement about the fruit trees is wrong then Jesus lied.

crochet1949 sorry I did not answer you sooner but I wasn't on the internet over the week end.

I do not know if there is a difference in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost but if when we are saved we have the Holy Spirit in our life then it is different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Who do know that well like I said earlier Paul asked if they were Filled cense they were saved and the people he was talking to said no then he told them about Jesus and they were saved then after they were saved he lad hands on them and they were fill with the Holy Ghost.

Not only that but we know that after Jesus died on the cross and ross again that at that point me could be saved, but Jesus stayed on earth something tike 40 days after he ross from the dead. He said that he had to go so the Confider could come. So that means that people was getting saved for at lest 80 day with out being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because it was 40 days from when Jesus left that the upper room experience happened (my time periods may be off a little I have not read that part in a while but the concept is right). So if a Christian has the Holy Spirit at the time of solvation then that has to be different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. Because people were already getting saved before the upper room experience happened. That would mean that they were saved with out being filled at the same time.

I agree with you about being filled with the Holy Spirit but I don't agree with you adding works into salvation,when you do this? You turn Christianity into just another religion that teaches works for salvation.I think you need to study the book of Galatians and Hebrews. Because Jesus paid for our salvation in full for those who have accepted his salvation and have been saved and there is nothing man can do to add to what Jesus already did for those who have been saved. Remove works from your idea of salvation and you'll be right.You are not any Christian's judge and cannot know who is saved and who isn't based on works.Now on one hand you seem to know we are not saved by works but then you add in human effort and think you can judge somebody based on your perception of the person's faith,belief,etc which are works you are sneaking in there adding to salvation.If a person is saved they already believe and have faith in Jesus.

crochet1949 wrote:"unbelief in Christ being a sin" -- Never thought of it as Sinning -- it's more of an attitude? being sinful is doing something that is displeasing to God. An action? thought? If a person grows up in another belief system and they have not been approached with Christianity, yet. Are they sinning by virtue of believing in that other system? They Are sinning by virtue of Not accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- but if they don't Know about that gift -- if they are killed -- God already knows that they Won't be accepting in the future. Or He will allow them to live Until they have heard and accepted.

Unless the state of unbelief is out of rebellion -- the person Has heard and scoffs at what he Does hear. Hearing and choosing to reject -- ---- in the Bible -- New Testament -- Saul was an active rebel and God reached down to him and touched him and Paul became a Strong Christian -- was chosen by God to write several books in the New Testament. He Also suffered greatly in the process OF sharing Scripture.

Just some thoughts.

as Christians, we..."naturally" look for evidence of salvation in the seen, rather than the unseen, as we are directed. Hence, for anyone to be considered "saved," they must talk like us, and walk like us; but God, quite demonstrably, does not care about these things, as can be shown from Scripture. Which is why we are told to look for the fruit, and more specifically "works unto repentance," which is just a religious way (now) of saying "people who have enough control of their egos to be able to admit wrongs, and apologize, and evince the desire to rebound ("repent," in Catholic language), and offer to make amends.

Behold, the Savages, (as per the prevailing "Christian" pov):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXWVEQbyOJQ
[youtube]/watch?v=HXWVEQbyOJQ[/youtube]
i give up

Yes, we Are to look for the fruit of salvation / how we talk and act -- those are the 'fruit' --- God sees/ knows/ our 'inside' and That will be observed by others Through our speech and actions.

Some of the 'problem' comes when people Do look at 'us' Rather than looking To Christ -- What Would Christ / Jesus Do in this situation. And the Strength to Do that comes from the Holy Spirit. But -- satan is Very good at making the Bad look really Good. So - there Are times, we don't really Want to do the Right thing cause the Wrong thing looks So much more appealing.

postby abelcainsbrother » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:30 pm



I agree with you about being filled with the Holy Spirit but I don't agree with you adding works into salvation,when you do this? You turn Christianity into just another religion that teaches works for salvation.I think you need to study the book of Galatians and Hebrews. Because Jesus paid for our salvation in full for those who have accepted his salvation and have been saved and there is nothing man can do to add to what Jesus already did for those who have been saved. Remove works from your idea of salvation and you'll be right.You are not any Christian's judge and cannot know who is saved and who isn't based on works.Now on one hand you seem to know we are not saved by works but then you add in human effort and think you can judge somebody based on your perception of the person's faith,belief,etc which are works you are sneaking in there adding to salvation.If a person is saved they already believe and have faith in Jesus.

If we could not tell if someone was saved then why would God tell us to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. If you could not tell there is no need to say not to do it because you would know if you was or not.

2Co_6:14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Unsaved people say they are saved all the time. So if God warned us to not be unequally yoked then we must be able to tell by watching someone.

I do not believe I am saved by my works I believe I work because I am saved.


1Jn 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 
1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 
1Jn 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 

but Christ did not tell us to not be "unequally yoked with unbelievers," wadr, and if you will just bring the verse here, this will become apparent. At least i think it will, lol. This is a chimera, just like "you don't need works to be saved" is, and neither view will stand up to a holistic interp of Scripture, wadr. "you don't have to do anything else" is just what Apostates tell themselves, and teach, as may also be demonstrated in the Book.

crochet1949 wrote:Yes, we Are to look for the fruit of salvation / how we talk and act -- those are the 'fruit' --- God sees/ knows/ our 'inside' and That will be observed by others Through our speech and actions.

Some of the 'problem' comes when people Do look at 'us' Rather than looking To Christ -- What Would Christ / Jesus Do in this situation. And the Strength to Do that comes from the Holy Spirit. But -- satan is Very good at making the Bad look really Good. So - there Are times, we don't really Want to do the Right thing cause the Wrong thing looks So much more appealing.

nice. And so now, i have a question for you, that might further illuminate this "looking at us" thing; do iyo (in your opinion), can a Muslim be considered "saved" by you, a Christian? ty

bbyrd009 wrote:but Christ did not tell us to not be "unequally yoked with unbelievers," wadr, and if you will just bring the verse here, this will become apparent. At least i think it will, lol. This is a chimera, just like "you don't need works to be saved" is, and neither view will stand up to a holistic interp of Scripture, wadr. "you don't have to do anything else" is just what Apostates tell themselves, and teach, as may also be demonstrated in the Book.

crochet1949 wrote:Yes, we Are to look for the fruit of salvation / how we talk and act -- those are the 'fruit' --- God sees/ knows/ our 'inside' and That will be observed by others Through our speech and actions.

Some of the 'problem' comes when people Do look at 'us' Rather than looking To Christ -- What Would Christ / Jesus Do in this situation. And the Strength to Do that comes from the Holy Spirit. But -- satan is Very good at making the Bad look really Good. So - there Are times, we don't really Want to do the Right thing cause the Wrong thing looks So much more appealing.

nice. And so now, i have a question for you, that might further illuminate this "looking at us" thing; do iyo (in your opinion), can a Muslim be considered "saved" by you, a Christian? ty

You Might want to look at 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers."

And a person is to take time to get to know a future spouse -- since they are to be a life-long partner -- what are your lives showing others / each other.

This is the second time you've mentioned Muslims and the Quran. You're on several other conversation threads -- I'll share Here -- John 14:6 is Jesus Christ telling people /us/ that "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." There can only be One truth -- Jesus Christ is God's Son -- 2nd Person of the Godhead. He says that He, Jesus Christ, is the Way, Truth, Life -- Very specific.

Anyone / Everyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior is 'saved' -- Christ shed His blood on the cross for Everyone.

crochet1949 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:but Christ did not tell us to not be "unequally yoked with unbelievers," wadr, and if you will just bring the verse here, this will become apparent. At least i think it will, lol. This is a chimera, just like "you don't need works to be saved" is, and neither view will stand up to a holistic interp of Scripture, wadr. "you don't have to do anything else" is just what Apostates tell themselves, and teach, as may also be demonstrated in the Book.

crochet1949 wrote:Yes, we Are to look for the fruit of salvation / how we talk and act -- those are the 'fruit' --- God sees/ knows/ our 'inside' and That will be observed by others Through our speech and actions.

Some of the 'problem' comes when people Do look at 'us' Rather than looking To Christ -- What Would Christ / Jesus Do in this situation. And the Strength to Do that comes from the Holy Spirit. But -- satan is Very good at making the Bad look really Good. So - there Are times, we don't really Want to do the Right thing cause the Wrong thing looks So much more appealing.

nice. And so now, i have a question for you, that might further illuminate this "looking at us" thing; do iyo (in your opinion), can a Muslim be considered "saved" by you, a Christian? ty

You Might want to look at 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers."

And a person is to take time to get to know a future spouse -- since they are to be a life-long partner -- what are your lives showing others / each other.

This is the second time you've mentioned Muslims and the Quran. You're on several other conversation threads -- I'll share Here -- John 14:6 is Jesus Christ telling people /us/ that "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." There can only be One truth -- Jesus Christ is God's Son -- 2nd Person of the Godhead. He says that He, Jesus Christ, is the Way, Truth, Life -- Very specific.

Anyone / Everyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior is 'saved' -- Christ shed His blood on the cross for Everyone.

ah, nice; forgot about that one;

Warning Against Idolatry

14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers

which i understand that you currently interpret as a clue that you are to define "believer" and "unbeliever," ok, no prob.

funny that the heading is "Warning Against Idolatry" though, huh?

so lemme ask you, how is that not yoking yourselves--you and your cloistered peers, who have ostensibly "come out from among them," that is--working out for you guys? Approaching a 0% divorce rate, yet? are you at half the national rate? A third?

i suggest that the verse may be read differently, so as to be about you, and only you--although i would certainly reject a woman who did not evince works unto repentance, myself, my brother. Wouldn't care much if she said she was an Atheist, though; as long as she demonstrated "First Son" to me, works unto rebound, and all that. Fruit

There can only be One truth -- Jesus Christ is God's Son -- 2nd Person of the Godhead

Why do you call Me good? No one is good, except the Father

so wadr, i'll pass on your Trinitarian beliefs, but BAM believe them as long as they serve you.
Christ is Word, and Truth, though, so we agree there. That is enough, imo, to get us out of Egypt.

It is us who must reap what we sow.

What is the Word of God, crochet1949? ty

I have both the old NIV and a NKJV and neither have that particular heading for that verse.

Repeat -- I am Not your 'brother'. I'm a WOMAN.

Society is allowing for same-sex unions -- Not very Biblical -- God's way is one man / one woman. And there are Also certain conditions allowing for divorce -- because people are stiff-necked people.

There are Lots of very good -- Committed marriages. Half Stay Together.

People need to Read God's Word -- God's Word to us (mankind). and what is "ty"

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was With God and the Word Was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made hat has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men."

The Word of God is a collection of books that God inspired His chosen people / mostly men / to write so that mankind Can get to know the God who created us and this world. The books started out as manuscripts which over time - became put in book form and into Bible form.

And, yes, mankind certainly Does reap what we sow. Individually, yes.

crochet1949 2 Corinthians 6:14 was simply saying far Christians to not marry people who were not Christians.

If y'all were right then there would be no way to know if someone was a Christian or not because according to y'all it dose not mater what you are doing as long as you believed at sometime in your life then you are saved no mater what.

So if we can not tell if someone is a Christian or not then 2 Corinthians 6:14 is stupid.

You must see your interpretation of the bible make a joke of the bible.

You can not say we are Christian sinners in one breath then in another say God forgives us of all our sin

You can not say Christian must marry Christians in one breath then in another say we can not know who Christians are in another.

You can not say all unbelievers are going to hell in one breath then in another all Christians unbelievers are going to heaven in another

That kind of thinking does not make since.