Evidence for God from Science

Kurieuo wrote:I'll let you cast the first stone swordfish since I'm not without sin myself. Furthermore, I'm now legally married to the woman I fornicated with for 8 years and we have four children who God blessed us with. She also became a Christian during our fornicating together, which I'm thankful to God for. God is truly great!

1over137 wrote:I became Christian on 3rd June 2011.
I was confused a lot before we married and surrendered to my feelings too.
Now I learn how hard it is when your spouse and his family are not Christians.
Kind of alone.

• A Thorn in the Flesh
  7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:7-10)

• I think the safest way to answer is to let the four other words in verse 10 fill out what he has in mind. What he summarizes as weaknesses in verse 9 he spells out in four other words in verse 10: insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities.
• Insults—when people think of clever ways of making your faith or your lifestyle or your words look stupid or weird or inconsistent. When we were giving out "Finding Your Field of Dreams" at the dome, I heard one man say mockingly, "And the Lord said, Play ball." And all his friends laughed.
• Hardships—circumstances forced upon you, reversals of fortune against your will. This could refer to any situation where you feel trapped. You didn't plan it or think it would be this way. But there you are, and it's hard.
• Persecutions—wounds or abuses or painful circumstances or acts of prejudice or exploitation from people because of your Christian faith or your Christian moral commitments. It's when you are not treated fairly. You get a raw deal.
• Calamities (or distresses or difficulties or troubles)—the idea is one of pressure or crushing or being weighed down; circumstances that tend to overcome you with stress and tension.

swordfish7 wrote:

B. W. wrote: No I am not but there is a context one needs that only the Lord can give. Jesus came to save whom and he sat in the house of whom? From this, I hope you will see the context.

What does the passage say? We are not to shun unbelievers and the passage says we should associate with immoral sinners (of course with spiritual reason). It says we are to shun a person who claims to be a believer (and the implication here he is attending church) yet is living immorally (1 Cor. 5:11). So this does not conflict with Jesus sitting in the house of sinners or saving sinners.

B. W. wrote: The Native American First Nation couple with the 15 year old son never darkened the door of a church. The man, for years stopped going to church. They came back to a meeting and the Holy Spirit alone saved and convicted them.

I will never post - if you are sinner we must shun you from attending a revival meeting on the door - there is a context.

Again, what does the passage say? We are not to shun unbelievers! So you are attributing to me something I am not saying.

1 Cor. 5:12 wrote:But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

B.W. wrote:I have counselled many immoral Christian believers who were wishing and praying to be free from their sexual sins and immoral sins booze, drugs, etc. They cannot share in a church because they would be shunned and never find the freedom Christ brings. So I pray and talk with them. Sooner of later they get it and find Isaiah 61:1-4 true and they repent and build a new way away from what ruined their lives.

You are correct that we need to keep the scripture in context or we can fall into error. The I Cor. 5 passage was addressing a difficult situation in the church where a young man was sleeping and openly living with his father's wife - likely his second wife not his mother. This was openly happening in the church and nobody was addressing it. So we need wisdom in applying this passage, specifically, how we should shun believers who are openly sinning without a heart to change. Certainly there are young men and older men who struggle with sexual immorality, but it does depend how long they have been a Christian and if they are concerned about the sin from the heart. If a guy is attempting to seduce women of the church then the issue should be addressed and the women protected: he should be shunned until there is real sorrow from the heart and a change. If he is sleeping with underage girls, then the police will be required. The goal in all this is restoration, but sometimes this is impossible. If a teenage kid is struggling with masterbation, then I don't think the kid should be shunned. A wife or husband who is hiding their drinking problem, at the same time claiming to be a Christian should possibly be shunned if there is no acknowledgement of the sin. A person who claims to be a homosexual openly living the lifestyle in defiance to the word should be shunned. A young couple who have been married under tribal traditions, who will shortly be married under state law should not be shunned. But I would advise them to get married under the state law first and then by the tribal tradition, though with the Christian context without any idolatry. The principle is that open defiant sin practiced by those claiming to be Christian should be addressed using shunning if they don't respond to the reproof.

B.W. wrote: I also encounter some who simply love their immoral behavior more than the Lord and reject all prayers and help by either direct rejection or being a spiritual leech so for such persons they should be shunned but if they do come back, repentant, we are required to take them back in. If not, they are toast...

These are the ones we should shun, but not that alcoholic who is waging the war trying to overcome his addiction, where he falls down but again gets up to fight the battle.

B.W. wrote: The original statement on this thread dealt with a couple shacking up together and the gal being on the praise team with the Pastors approval. I cannot speak for the pastor other than he knows something we do not. If I understood the TV show comments rightly, it sounded like they were in process to be married soon. Maybe they split up for a time till they are married but I do not know for certain. They could married by now too. Eccl chapter three speaks of times and seasons to toss stones and not to toss stones...

If they were approached by the elders and they agreed to be married by a certain date, I would not shun them, but I would ensure they were not serving in the church until after some time after they were married.

B.W. wrote: I actually do not have an issue with the woman being on the praise team due to the Pastor's decision (its on Him).

I don't think it is appropriate for the couple to serve in the church when they are engaging in fornication!
I agree with your Mega Church comments. Most of these churches are harmful to the body of Christ. By the way, I lived on Indian Reservations when I was a kid. My mom even carried me in a papoose board for a short while. Thank you for your heavenly service working with the Native American Indians. It can be challenging work I am sure!

B. W. wrote:Here is something to consider...

King David...

A man after God's own heart as the bible reveals...

Did God shun King David?

Kurieuo wrote:No, my wife when we came together wasnt Christian. I wasn't going to marry her until she became one, as it's one thing to subject myself to a non-Christian and another level of irresponsibility to subject your own kids and their souls, but I was quite assured she would. Had it on what I believed to be good word.

It'd be quite a different situation if we were married at the time one of us became Christian, difficult, make me feel sicky even at the thought of my loved one being lost especially if kids were there. I'm not sure, with everything else and taking my beliefs so strongly, I don't believe I could remain living together in such a situation. Separation didn't necessarily mean divorce , but it would set down firm boundaries that if she wanted me, then she'd need to really start seriously considering what I believe and come around. In fact, I told her flatly I wouldn't marry her until she became Christian.

She considered me quite naive, we'd have the occasional heated exchange about Adam and Eve, Evolution, Noah, and the like. About 4 years in, went to an Alpha with her, started up going to church and she tact along with me, and then she eventually became moved and answered an alter call

Yours is an extra difficult situation, given the more complicated health circumstances, I don't envy you and admire your resolve and character..

It doesn't always turn out well and I was "lucky" (if it be called luck rather than providence). I've heard other stories of couples, commitment just doesn't cut it. Sometimes not even legal marriage cuts it given the high divorce rates, Scripture alikens taking on someone new rather than being reconciled to fornicating also. Thankfully we can depend upon God's righteousness offered via Christ, because God and I both know I lack plenty of it.