Evidence for God from Science

Hortator wrote:So this guy is basically Audacity version 1.1? Re-released with very few changes?

edit: more like 0.9v. This alex troll can't get to 4 pages without his topic hitting a brick wall. Good ol' Audacity had his first thread get to 5 pages of acrimony before Jac, the most reasonable man you'll ever talk to, actually had to put his foot down. It was wild to watch, and I'll never forget this little gem from him:

What you need, my misguided friend, is not an argument. It's a counselor. And no, I'm not being snarky or mean. I'm telling you an honest truth. Your reactions here speak to a much deeper, visceral response that are rooted in some negative experiences you've had. And I'm sorry for that.

Best exposure of an atheist I ever saw.

>the most reasonable man you'll ever talk to
>YEC
Choose one.

The amount of prejudice towards him is shocking. Atheist, had negative experiences, troll, Audacity v1.1...
No wonder I had to take a break from this forum for a while.
So, yeah, perhaps address and answer his questions instead of calling names or pull up the "talk-to-the-hand-scenario-since-you-can't-exegesis-noob"?
Some of his thoughts, especially at the beginning are really similar to mine and you people really act like kids. You get offended as if he killed your pet or set your house on fire or worse.
I don't know how many of us are Biblical scholars, but I suppose it is an overwhelming minority. So, perhaps stop being so cocky and actually answer the man.
For the record, I haven't had any negative experiences with the Christian faith unless we count the refusal of Christ as something negative.
But yeah, the notion that M. Ghandi goes to hell (for eternity or not is still in question since alex did bring up better argumentation as opposed to the annihilationism type of hell) is, to me, absurd.
He gets to a point of God being both mercy and justice at the same time, which is, of course, a must when we talk about God, but also illogical. Nobody answered to that either.
The illogical things concerning the Noah's ark are also well written, of course with the flaw which hughfarey pointed out which is that the event is not to be taken literally. However, the issue of free will and righteousness, which is the message of that story (I suppose?), is also illogical as he has pointed out. Or?
He does not get that the certain parts of the Bible are not to be understood literally, but he does have some good points, at least imo.
Might want to stop being so butthurt? I don't like it when people, especially those fedora tipping atheists, take a verse and interpret it in the weirdest way possible to fit their beliefs (as PaulS said) but I reckon he has spent a bit more time into that and it would be nice to get an answer, no?
Or perhaps I am a result of fallen angel's half-breed bloodline? I simply can not grasp how some being who calls itself rational can state something like that, but eh, I am not the one who is supposed to judge...

There is a lot in the bible I dont understand too.

I dont see the OP as being deserving of some of the comments here tbh either.

I'm sure you're right, Hortator. Except the bit about the bowls full of wrath is from Revelations, which is New Testament.

If you follow the thread from the beginning, people were reasonable and respectful, until Alex showed he was playing a game.

I dunno.

Maybe.

Anyway, okay here's a question about the bible.

The story of David.
David, aasin David and Goliath?
The David as in Bathsheba? Who was she, whats the story?

IceMobster wrote:

Hortator wrote:So this guy is basically Audacity version 1.1? Re-released with very few changes?

edit: more like 0.9v. This alex troll can't get to 4 pages without his topic hitting a brick wall. Good ol' Audacity had his first thread get to 5 pages of acrimony before Jac, the most reasonable man you'll ever talk to, actually had to put his foot down. It was wild to watch, and I'll never forget this little gem from him:

What you need, my misguided friend, is not an argument. It's a counselor. And no, I'm not being snarky or mean. I'm telling you an honest truth. Your reactions here speak to a much deeper, visceral response that are rooted in some negative experiences you've had. And I'm sorry for that.

Best exposure of an atheist I ever saw.

>the most reasonable man you'll ever talk to
>YEC
Choose one.

The amount of prejudice towards him is shocking. Atheist, had negative experiences, troll, Audacity v1.1...
No wonder I had to take a break from this forum for a while.
So, yeah, perhaps address and answer his questions instead of calling names or pull up the "talk-to-the-hand-scenario-since-you-can't-exegesis-noob"?
Some of his thoughts, especially at the beginning are really similar to mine and you people really act like kids. You get offended as if he killed your pet or set your house on fire or worse.
I don't know how many of us are Biblical scholars, but I suppose it is an overwhelming minority. So, perhaps stop being so cocky and actually answer the man.
For the record, I haven't had any negative experiences with the Christian faith unless we count the refusal of Christ as something negative.
But yeah, the notion that M. Ghandi goes to hell (for eternity or not is still in question since alex did bring up better argumentation as opposed to the annihilationism type of hell) is, to me, absurd.
He gets to a point of God being both mercy and justice at the same time, which is, of course, a must when we talk about God, but also illogical. Nobody answered to that either.
The illogical things concerning the Noah's ark are also well written, of course with the flaw which hughfarey pointed out which is that the event is not to be taken literally. However, the issue of free will and righteousness, which is the message of that story (I suppose?), is also illogical as he has pointed out. Or?
He does not get that the certain parts of the Bible are not to be understood literally, but he does have some good points, at least imo.
Might want to stop being so butthurt? I don't like it when people, especially those fedora tipping atheists, take a verse and interpret it in the weirdest way possible to fit their beliefs (as PaulS said) but I reckon he has spent a bit more time into that and it would be nice to get an answer, no?
Or perhaps I am a result of fallen angel's half-breed bloodline? I simply can not grasp how some being who calls itself rational can state something like that, but eh, I am not the one who is supposed to judge...

I addressed every point he brought that he has a problem with and yet he just goes back to telling us things God can't do,like he is willing to stand before God and argue about what God can and cannot do.Anyway I addressed his issues,yet I cannot change his mind against his will. Also if you are referring to me about half breeds produced by angels I did not say or imply we were produced from it,only it is why God flooded the earth and drowned them. I understand you don't believe the bible but read Genesis 6 for yourself and it is what it says whether you believe it or not. People including you believe all kinds of things they can't prove like there is no God.

abelcainsbrother wrote:I addressed every point he brought that he has a problem with and yet he just goes back to telling us things God can't do,like he is willing to stand before God and argue about what God can and cannot do.Anyway I addressed his issues,yet I cannot change his mind against his will. Also if you are referring to me about half breeds produced by angels I did not say or imply we were produced from it,only it is why God flooded the earth and drowned them. I understand you don't believe the bible but read Genesis 6 for yourself and it is what it says whether you believe it or not. People including you believe all kinds of things they can't prove like there is no God.

Sure you did. Started with the prejudice followed by "you don't understand this because you are not under the influence of the Holy Spirit, you silly!" followed by ~5 youtube links for songs of your favourite band.

abelcainsbrother wrote: Wow! You covered many things but based on your many questions it makes me think that you've been listening to atheists either challenging you about these things or by listening to certain atheists teach the bible and mock it and you felt you could not defend it,etc. I don't know if I can address every question you brought up. It would take time to address each question but I would say that it is impossible to fully understand God and his word without having been born again first, a person must have the Holy Spirit's help to understand the things of God.

The kingdom of God will not make sense to those who have not been born again and do not rely on the Holy Spirit to help understand the things of God.In some cases you may have been believing the wrong biblical interpretation and so it does not seem like it lines up with science. Have you ever questioned the biblical interpretation you've been going by? Because there are other interpretations that line up much better with science that you should consider. God wrote the book of life but he also wrote the book of nature also and they will line up much better when we have the correct interpretation.

IceMobster wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:I addressed every point he brought that he has a problem with and yet he just goes back to telling us things God can't do,like he is willing to stand before God and argue about what God can and cannot do.Anyway I addressed his issues,yet I cannot change his mind against his will. Also if you are referring to me about half breeds produced by angels I did not say or imply we were produced from it,only it is why God flooded the earth and drowned them. I understand you don't believe the bible but read Genesis 6 for yourself and it is what it says whether you believe it or not. People including you believe all kinds of things they can't prove like there is no God.

Sure you did. Started with the prejudice followed by "you don't understand this because you are not under the influence of the Holy Spirit, you silly!" followed by ~5 youtube links for songs of your favourite band.

told you those youtube links would burn you Abe.

I still remember the first song acb gave me when I came here a year ago

http://youtu.be/P9hVdDCnUPg

Acb, just stay true to who you are... You're a uniquovert

IceMobster wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:I addressed every point he brought that he has a problem with and yet he just goes back to telling us things God can't do,like he is willing to stand before God and argue about what God can and cannot do.Anyway I addressed his issues,yet I cannot change his mind against his will. Also if you are referring to me about half breeds produced by angels I did not say or imply we were produced from it,only it is why God flooded the earth and drowned them. I understand you don't believe the bible but read Genesis 6 for yourself and it is what it says whether you believe it or not. People including you believe all kinds of things they can't prove like there is no God.

Sure you did. Started with the prejudice followed by "you don't understand this because you are not under the influence of the Holy Spirit, you silly!" followed by ~5 youtube links for songs of your favourite band.

abelcainsbrother wrote: Wow! You covered many things but based on your many questions it makes me think that you've been listening to atheists either challenging you about these things or by listening to certain atheists teach the bible and mock it and you felt you could not defend it,etc. I don't know if I can address every question you brought up. It would take time to address each question but I would say that it is impossible to fully understand God and his word without having been born again first, a person must have the Holy Spirit's help to understand the things of God.

The kingdom of God will not make sense to those who have not been born again and do not rely on the Holy Spirit to help understand the things of God.In some cases you may have been believing the wrong biblical interpretation and so it does not seem like it lines up with science. Have you ever questioned the biblical interpretation you've been going by? Because there are other interpretations that line up much better with science that you should consider. God wrote the book of life but he also wrote the book of nature also and they will line up much better when we have the correct interpretation.

It is true that the bible cannot be understood fully without the Holy Spirit I didn't call or imply he was silly,only hardheaded and obtuse. I took the time to answer a few of his hang-ups but he is hung up on what God can or cannot do according to him. He likes to say God can't do that and implies God is somehow wrong or bad if he does.Also the songs I posted helps to communicate but I don't even think he can watch them.

The conclusion is :
The old testament is just a collection of fantastic, supernatural,mythical tales that portraits a universe so different from ours it seems out of this world. A place where Yahweh talks directly to people and helps them conquer cities, kill their enemies, give them food out of thin air ; a place where you see fantastic things and clear proofs of Yahweh: talking burning bush, rivers that turn into blood, sticks that turn into snakes, people that turn into salt, seas that depart, angels that walk visible among people and talk to them, people that are fireproof, people strong like the mythical figure Hercules, giants 9 feet tall and so on.

The story of Noah is no more real then the story of Utnapishtim.
The god of the Jews and Christians:Yahweh is no more real then the god of Gets: Zamolxis.
If Jews were really in close relationship with a real god,a perfect moral being we wouldn't have seen so much imoral elements in their culture like:human sacrifice,animal sacrifice,slavery,gays intolerance,all the weird laws about woman menstruation,genocide ,raping and murder.
They were no more morally evolved then the other ancient civilizations.

--> Kurieuo :"until Alex showed he was playing a game."
I am not playing any game.Your just being paranoid and a fundamentalist Christian.

Top Ten Signs You’re a Fundamentalist Christian

10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!

6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”

3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, someone rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

Kurieuo wrote:Two threads I'll direct you to Alex:

#1 The Foolishness of Many Non-believers to just give you a heads up and how you appear to many here. Be offended if you like, just saying. You ought to own some responsibility for this in your manner.

Then #2 Nature of Reality: A Challenge to Atheists. Of course, you could just take your Atheism, or whatever beliefs you have, based upon the nothingness of just trying knocking other peoples pieces on the table off.

You too, need to justify whatever it is you believe or reject as a belief. Criticising and replacing with nothing gets you nowhere, but rather seen as someone with a chip on their shoulder.

Alex, what is your purpose for coming here?

alexXcJRO wrote:The conclusion is :
The old testament is just a collection of fantastic, supernatural,mythical tales that portraits a universe so different from ours it seems out of this world. A place where Yahweh talks directly to people and helps them conquer cities, kill their enemies, give them food out of thin air ; a place where you see fantastic things and clear proofs of Yahweh: talking burning bush, rivers that turn into blood, sticks that turn into snakes, people that turn into salt, seas that depart, angels that walk visible among people and talk to them, people that are fireproof, people strong like the mythical figure Hercules, giants 9 feet tall and so on.

The story of Noah is no more real then the story of Utnapishtim.
The god of the Jews and Christians:Yahweh is no more real then the god of Gets: Zamolxis.
If Jews were really in close relationship with a real god,a perfect moral being we wouldn't have seen so much imoral elements in their culture like:human sacrifice,animal sacrifice,slavery,gays intolerance,all the weird laws about woman menstruation,genocide ,raping and murder.
They were no more morally evolved then the other ancient civilizations.

--> Kurieuo :"until Alex showed he was playing a game."
I am not playing any game.Your just being paranoid and a fundamentalist Christian.

Top Ten Signs You’re a Fundamentalist Christian

10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!

6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”

3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, someone rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

Just because you got your bible teaching from atheists does not get you away from the big fat problem you have and that is you have no evidence or proof,not any kind of evidence to back up what you believe like we do. But yet you'll prop your opinion up against Christianity that has the most evidence behind it than any other religion and especially when it comes to atheists and agnostics who have absolutely no evidence behind their opinion about God. You believe and accept things based on blind faith,unlike Christians.

You could careless about the truth based on evidence but yet you'll aceept things you've heard based on no evidence.just your opinion. Evidence is not important to atheists and agnostics which is why they make it clear they are excluded from needing evidence for their opinion.They repeat it over and over that they get a pass and are excluded from needing evidence. Yet you'll believe people like this who could careless about having evidence behind what they accept. It is the blind leading the blind.

--> Nessa : "Alex, what is your purpose for coming here?"

I wanted to investigated further before saying " bible is not true and that the stories are not actual past events."
I might have been convinced otherwise if my issues and questions would have been answered satisfactory.
Also the way you who are considered changed and renewed by Jesus behaved on this post convinced me further that my conclusion in the previous post is true also regarding the New Testament.
I posted on another forum and i got the same reactions.

-->abelcainsbrother :"Just because you got your bible teaching from atheists does not get you away from the big fat problem you have and that is you have no evidence or proof,not any kind of evidence to back up what you believe like we do. But yet you'll prop your opinion up against Christianity that has the most evidence behind it than any other religion and especially when it comes to atheists and agnostics who have absolutely no evidence behind their opinion about God. You believe and accept things based on blind faith,unlike Christians."


Going back to assuming things about me that are not true and babbling nonsense. Again i say i am not an atheist.My religion is not atheism.I don't have to prove anything.I didn't said i don't believe in a superior being at all.I am just not believing in Yahweh and Jesus as i don't believe in Zamolxis or Ra or Zeus or Shiva.
I didn't got my teachings from atheists.I watched debates about the bible.I didn't just listened to one side.

This will be my last post. I have been trying to remain patient, but this is getting ridiculous.