Evidence for God from Science

audie wrote:
Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

RickD wrote:

audie wrote:
Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

Audie,

I think you mean, "Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something that you think is just nonsense?"

We each decide what we think is nonsense. For you, it's a global flood. Others don't have enough faith to believe in atheism. To them it's nonsense.

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

audie wrote:
Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

Audie,

I think you mean, "Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something that you think is just nonsense?"

We each decide what we think is nonsense. For you, it's a global flood. Others don't have enough faith to believe in atheism. To them it's nonsense.

No, I say what I mean. As for the "faith to believe in atheism" I believed, wrongly, that you were above that kind of stupidity.

crochet1949 wrote:

Audie -- sorry you feel that way. Maybe it all boils down to the fact that people don't want to acknowledge the existence of sin. We'd Rather just go about our own business and do what we want to do and never mind what God says.

No, it does not come down to an excuse for self indulgence. I have no wish to do wrong or behave in an unethical manner. I need no carrot and stick.

It is best not to speak of what "We'd" rather do.

And it's Also satan getting in there and whispering in our ears -- God wouldn't Really kill those people because of their being human. So we simply are writing it off as a story - and a not so Nice a story at that.

Not that I believe in "Satan" but if I did, I would want to look closely into
his encouragement of certain beliefs. He is said to be infinitely subtle, smarter for sure than people. Dont be so sure who has been fooled.

And, yes, lots of people around here have varying views of lots of Scripture. So - a discerning spirit?! It proves to provide for good, vigorous discussion / makes us Think. We Can learn from each other. And, sometimes what we learn is that "'boy, are They ever out on left field in That area".

That is all very well, if it is discussion of hair splitting details. World wide flood versus a bit os splash splash versus just a story is no mere detail.

IF "god" were directing people's understanding, this would not happen.

Now, you Are willing to say that Some distant day Australia Might actually be at the north pole. But NO WAY to the Noah story. That is Interesting.

Is it? Do you have any idea why I said that? You are aware that all the continents are moving? Knowest thou whither?

As for the Noah story, it has all the characteristics of the buffalo herd story.
It is beyond my capacity to demonstrate that to you, but I think there is a lot to be said for moving on past the 18th century, the end of which is about when people who actually went out and studied geology began to notice there was something wrong with the story.

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

audie wrote:
Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

Audie,

I think you mean, "Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something that you think is just nonsense?"

We each decide what we think is nonsense. For you, it's a global flood. Others don't have enough faith to believe in atheism. To them it's nonsense.

No, I say what I mean. As for the "faith to believe in atheism" I believed, wrongly, that you were above that kind of stupidity.

It takes quite a bit of blind faith to believe there is no God. But hey, while you're reeling about people believing in "nonsensical floods", maybe it's time for a self-checkup. To those who believe in God, atheism is complete and utter nonsense. Much, much worse than a global flood.

Our eternity isn't riding on a belief, or non-belief in a flood. An atheist's eternity is riding on a belief that God doesn't exist.

Our eternity isn't riding on a belief, or non-belief in a flood.

To those who believe in God, atheism is complete and utter nonsense.

Audie wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

Audie -- can we clarify for a moment -- your question -- 'would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something that is just nonsense?" As RickD. has commented -- for You it is the global flood.

The "global flood" is a prime example of nonsense. IF it were to be-which it is not by any means-an integral and essential part of Christianity, that is a deal killer right there.

So -- should a person be part of a 'faith' religious belief system -- that 'requires' you to believe in something that you think is just nonsense. Well -- there Are religious belief systems existing that do exactly that.

Always have been

In This country we still have some degree of religious freedom

.

Including the choice to be expelled from the church

Maybe we could define 'faith'.

It is well defined. My objection was to playing equivocation games with the word.

And, you can't fathom Why anyone would believe in a global flood Period.

No, that is not it at all. It is very easy to understand.

Until the early 19th century, the belief was universal among the learned and the peasant alike.

And to say 'because God's Word tells us it happened' is pretty much useless to you.

It is useless to just say that, yes. IF all were all alike inspired to see the same interpretation, and, that interpretation coincided with observable fact, well,
who could not be convinced?

In fact, the opposite is the case.

God has given you a wonderful mind --you just earned a law degree.

You too

Unfortunately you don't allow for the existence of God.

Two unfortunates here. You are not using your wonderful mind, and, you are assuming something about me that simply is not so.

Because you don't see Him as being / acting Logically.

Uh, no, it is the opposite, really. I can see a possible existence for a god, but not one who, say, demands human sacrifice ala Aztec religion, nor one who
says he did something that didnt happen. But then, that is the word of man,
interpreted willy nilly by man.

I find myself feeling sorry for people who are so 'scientifically minded they can't see God'.

There may be such people; I am not one of them. It is not either / or in any case.

I think it is too bad for people who close themselves off from so many of the spectacular realities around them by choosing to only accept the -what Einstein called them- rather childish superstitions found in and literally interpreted from the bible.

The book called God's Word / Bible Does tell us that at some point in the future -- everyone Will acknowledge God's existence.

There are a lot of religions.

And then there is the reasoning -- my believing In God doesn't make Him exist any more than Not believing in Him makes Him Not exist. But -- it Can't be both ways. Either He does or He Doesn't.

There are yet more possibilities. Some other deity, or deities; and the one in the book may well exist, and we may well know next to nothing about him, and what we think we know is mostly wrong.

And since we Do have a book that begins with 'In the beginning God..... created....." I'd put my money in the concept that He Does

Which is fine. I know a lot of people who see it that way, and I've no trouble respecting their views.

I dont agree with the idea that one must never check his interpretation against any outside source, and cling to it regardless of any outside source contradiction.

I dont get the "park brain at door" attitude, as so well exemplified by the
noted paleontologist Dr. K. Wise, who in a staggering declaration of total intellectual dishonesty declared that if all the evidence in the universe turned against yec, he'd still be a yec. "as that is what the bible (get this) SEEMS to say!".

(emphasis added)

crochet1949 wrote:acb -- however, if a person does Not accept the miraculous virgin birth of Jesus Christ Or His bodily resurrection, then he won't be accepting salvation. And if that person questions the parting of the Red Sea , the burning bush, the beginnings of mankind -- then that person might as well through out the entire Bible --because it is All based on the 'miraculous'. Why do people 'fight' Biblical truths so much? Maybe because 'it' points people to a Higher Power / a supreme authority. And, a lot of people simply like a good debate. They are enjoying the intellectualism that God has given them -- thus, every doctrine imaginable is picked apart , bit by bit, until sometimes some people will start to disbelieve it. And That is part of satan's plan to get people to question God's Word. Does God Really mean what He says? Maybe the 'tone' of Biblical debate could be adjusted. Like -- isn't it Neat how God was able To...... turn the water into wine. To... talk through that burning bush. Give God the praise and glory that He really does deserve.

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Well -- I Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
The 'natural' man / person is the person who has not accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior and therefore does not understand Scripture -- and That is because the Holy Spirit has not come to indwell that person and Therefore that person does Not have any understanding of God's Word. No appreciation For it. No real caring for / about God's authority.

A person can look at American history through reading history books and find Those things. Well -- most Every country in this world has history they aren't proud of. Does a person blame God for Hitler's actions -- he was elected by German's citizens.
People are being tortured Today for taking a stand for God.

God did Not create Puppets -- He Did create us as unique individuals with freedom of choice -- and with Choice comes consequences both good and Bad.

Okay --let's take Another look at that flood -- Genesis tells us that God gave Noah directions for building it-- the Purpose? God Also gave Noah and his family a message for Everyone who heard about that 'strange' thing he was building. They were told over the span of 120 years about their SIN -- a great deal of SIN --

Genesis 6:5 "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

vs 6 "And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

vs7 "So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

And the rest - as they say - is History. And is sounds like mankind was the monster Not God. God gave Plenty of warning and the solution to their problem. But 'they' would not listen.

So - just Maybe we Should be considering the Why of that Flood -- isn't mankind heading that same direction NOW?! and what are We doing? Are We listening? What are We doing with God's Word NOW.


Mankind -- We Need laws and we need to obey them. And Where do we get those laws.

I kinda dont think you took any note of what I said.

If this spiritual discernment actually worked, then it would not all be lo here, and, lo there.
Look at the Chridtians in this forum with wildly divergent god inspired spiritually discerned
polar opposite readings.

And, for that matter if it worked, nobody could go so wrong as to think there actually
was such a flood.

There wasn't! It is as phony as if I called the police to complain of a million-strong buffalo herd
trampling thro' my house. When they came and found a fresh clean carpet, the petunias
in good order, the back fence standing, they might grow dubious. The neighbours report no sightings;
no hoof prints nor dropping, nor yet lingering odor. Aerial surveillance fails to find the herd.

Maybe the buffalo herd story is just a story? The police will not be amused.
Yet, the flood, even more fantastical, shown a phony a million times over in the
most obvious ways still has it's believers, who, yes, were guided by god, they
say, to see it as Truth?

What is going on? Would it kill a person to open his eyes?

I cant be part of such.

It is a pure and total deal-killer; one might as well say he'd
spiritually discerned that Australia is at the north pole. THAT of course, might
some distant day actually happen. The noah story isnt and never will be true.

I coild no more be part of such a faith than I could be of one that insisted
on the hyperboreal Oz as an article of faith, and of course, a matter of simple reality.

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards.

Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Well -- I Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
The 'natural' man / person is the person who has not accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior and therefore does not understand Scripture -- and That is because the Holy Spirit has not come to indwell that person and Therefore that person does Not have any understanding of God's Word. No appreciation For it. No real caring for / about God's authority.

A person can look at American history through reading history books and find Those things. Well -- most Every country in this world has history they aren't proud of. Does a person blame God for Hitler's actions -- he was elected by German's citizens.
People are being tortured Today for taking a stand for God.

God did Not create Puppets -- He Did create us as unique individuals with freedom of choice -- and with Choice comes consequences both good and Bad.

Okay --let's take Another look at that flood -- Genesis tells us that God gave Noah directions for building it-- the Purpose? God Also gave Noah and his family a message for Everyone who heard about that 'strange' thing he was building. They were told over the span of 120 years about their SIN -- a great deal of SIN --

Genesis 6:5 "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

vs 6 "And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

vs7 "So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

And the rest - as they say - is History. And is sounds like mankind was the monster Not God. God gave Plenty of warning and the solution to their problem. But 'they' would not listen.

So - just Maybe we Should be considering the Why of that Flood -- isn't mankind heading that same direction NOW?! and what are We doing? Are We listening? What are We doing with God's Word NOW.


Mankind -- We Need laws and we need to obey them. And Where do we get those laws.

I kinda dont think you took any note of what I said.

If this spiritual discernment actually worked, then it would not all be lo here, and, lo there.
Look at the Chridtians in this forum with wildly divergent god inspired spiritually discerned
polar opposite readings.

And, for that matter if it worked, nobody could go so wrong as to think there actually
was such a flood.

There wasn't! It is as phony as if I called the police to complain of a million-strong buffalo herd
trampling thro' my house. When they came and found a fresh clean carpet, the petunias
in good order, the back fence standing, they might grow dubious. The neighbours report no sightings;
no hoof prints nor dropping, nor yet lingering odor. Aerial surveillance fails to find the herd.

Maybe the buffalo herd story is just a story? The police will not be amused.
Yet, the flood, even more fantastical, shown a phony a million times over in the
most obvious ways still has it's believers, who, yes, were guided by god, they
say, to see it as Truth?

What is going on? Would it kill a person to open his eyes?

I cant be part of such.

It is a pure and total deal-killer; one might as well say he'd
spiritually discerned that Australia is at the north pole. THAT of course, might
some distant day actually happen. The noah story isnt and never will be true.

I coild no more be part of such a faith than I could be of one that insisted
on the hyperboreal Oz as an article of faith, and of course, a matter of simple reality.

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards.

Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question

Audi throughout history how many times has man been wrong in what he believed and thought was true? You believe a lot of things man believes that could be nonsense. It is much wiser to believe God over what man says and thinks is true. Atleast I have given you evidence that was discovered by global warming science that shows something catastrophic happened world wide and it dates to the time of Noah's flood. I never said it proves it,but it is evidence that we had a world wide drought and it dates to about 4500 years ago which is within the margin of error of when Noah's flood happened. World wide dust,in the ice sheets,etc. I know science does not examine it from a biblical perspective but at least we can see that something catastrophic happened that effected the world,no its not proof but evidence.

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:
I kinda dont think you took any note of what I said.

If this spiritual discernment actually worked, then it would not all be lo here, and, lo there.
Look at the Chridtians in this forum with wildly divergent god inspired spiritually discerned
polar opposite readings.

And, for that matter if it worked, nobody could go so wrong as to think there actually
was such a flood.

There wasn't! It is as phony as if I called the police to complain of a million-strong buffalo herd
trampling thro' my house. When they came and found a fresh clean carpet, the petunias
in good order, the back fence standing, they might grow dubious. The neighbours report no sightings;
no hoof prints nor dropping, nor yet lingering odor. Aerial surveillance fails to find the herd.

Maybe the buffalo herd story is just a story? The police will not be amused.
Yet, the flood, even more fantastical, shown a phony a million times over in the
most obvious ways still has it's believers, who, yes, were guided by god, they
say, to see it as Truth?

What is going on? Would it kill a person to open his eyes?

I cant be part of such.

It is a pure and total deal-killer; one might as well say he'd
spiritually discerned that Australia is at the north pole. THAT of course, might
some distant day actually happen. The noah story isnt and never will be true.

I coild no more be part of such a faith than I could be of one that insisted
on the hyperboreal Oz as an article of faith, and of course, a matter of simple reality.

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards.

Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question

Audi throughout history how many times has man been wrong in what he believed and thought was true? You believe a lot of things man believes that could be nonsense. It is much wiser to believe God over what man says and thinks is true. Atleast I have given you evidence that was discovered by global warming science that shows something catastrophic happened world wide and it dates to the time of Noah's flood. I never said it proves it,but it is evidence that we had a world wide drought and it dates to about 4500 years ago which is within the margin of error of when Noah's flood happened. World wide dust,in the ice sheets,etc. I know science does not examine it from a biblical perspective but at least we can see that something catastrophic happened that effected the world,no its not proof but evidence.

Ab, Ab, do you even try?

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards. Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question

All you did was preaching and irrelevancies, and in no way addressed the question.

You did, btw, a nice job of disproving your silly "flood" by identifying a dust layer that you agree is about 4500 years old... with ice above, and ice below.


Just how exactly could there be ice, a hundred thousand and more years accumulation, below the so called flood?

Try using your brain for something besides holding your ears apart.

You know it is impossible for a global flood ala bible to have left the polar ice intact.

There is an epiphany trying hard to get out of the dusty layers of dogma.
Try letting it happen.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards.

Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question

Audi throughout history how many times has man been wrong in what he believed and thought was true? You believe a lot of things man believes that could be nonsense. It is much wiser to believe God over what man says and thinks is true. Atleast I have given you evidence that was discovered by global warming science that shows something catastrophic happened world wide and it dates to the time of Noah's flood. I never said it proves it,but it is evidence that we had a world wide drought and it dates to about 4500 years ago which is within the margin of error of when Noah's flood happened. World wide dust,in the ice sheets,etc. I know science does not examine it from a biblical perspective but at least we can see that something catastrophic happened that effected the world,no its not proof but evidence.

Ab, Ab, do you even try?

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards. Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question

All you did was preaching and irrelevancies, and in no way addressed the question.

You did, btw, a nice job of disproving your silly "flood" by identifying a dust layer that you agree is about 4500 years old... with ice above, and ice below.


Just how exactly could there be ice, a hundred thousand and more years accumulation, below the so called flood?

Try using your brain for something besides holding your ears apart.

You know it is impossible for a global flood ala bible to have left the polar ice intact.

There is an epiphany trying hard to get out of the dusty layers of dogma.
Try letting it happen.

I'm an old earth creationist so yes there is ice below where we see the dust that shows a drought. You are just hung up on the ice staying intact but overlook that science detects a catastrophic world wide drought that dates to Noah's flood. It is evidence,you just are hung up on ice staying intact.I still have evidence for what I believe even if it is'nt proof. I also know that if the earth's surface could be levelled out and the deep trenches in the ocean were filled in the whole earth would be flooded,it could be shown on a computer simulation.So it is not impossible to believe.

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:
All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards.

Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something
that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question

Audi throughout history how many times has man been wrong in what he believed and thought was true? You believe a lot of things man believes that could be nonsense. It is much wiser to believe God over what man says and thinks is true. Atleast I have given you evidence that was discovered by global warming science that shows something catastrophic happened world wide and it dates to the time of Noah's flood. I never said it proves it,but it is evidence that we had a world wide drought and it dates to about 4500 years ago which is within the margin of error of when Noah's flood happened. World wide dust,in the ice sheets,etc. I know science does not examine it from a biblical perspective but at least we can see that something catastrophic happened that effected the world,no its not proof but evidence.

Ab, Ab, do you even try?

So because there are differing views you can't be apart of it? .

All due respect ab, but you are not reading for content.

So no. That is not remotely what I said. You are so wrong that it is not even upside down and backwards. Would you be part of a faith that required you to believe something that is just nonsense?

See if you can grasp that idea, and answer it. No preaching, no irrelevancies, just address that question

All you did was preaching and irrelevancies, and in no way addressed the question.

You did, btw, a nice job of disproving your silly "flood" by identifying a dust layer that you agree is about 4500 years old... with ice above, and ice below.


Just how exactly could there be ice, a hundred thousand and more years accumulation, below the so called flood?

Try using your brain for something besides holding your ears apart.

You know it is impossible for a global flood ala bible to have left the polar ice intact.

There is an epiphany trying hard to get out of the dusty layers of dogma.
Try letting it happen.

I'm an old earth creationist so yes there is ice below where we see the dust that shows a drought. You are just hung up on the ice staying intact but overlook that science detects a catastrophic world wide drought that dates to Noah's flood. It is evidence,you just are hung up on ice staying intact.I still have evidence for what I believe even if it is'nt proof. I also know that if the earth's surface could be levelled out and the deep trenches in the ocean were filled in the whole earth would be flooded,it could be shown on a computer simulation.So it is not impossible to believe.

I see you will never answer the original question, I suppose you do not understand it.

I am no more "hung up on" the ice than I am on two plus two is four. Quit trying to put your errors off on me.


The presence of ice older than you flood proves there was no flood.
You admitted the ice is older than your flood.
You cant get around that.

Why disgrace yourself further with this foolishness?