Evidence for God from Science

Kenny wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Kenny wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:There is the message of "righteouness" ( for lack of a better word), of doing what is right and the Gospel, which is a message of salvation.
Throughout history, we see evidence of the message of "what is right", natural law if you will.
That innate sense of "fair" or sense of doing "good" and while it can be perverted and made subjective, all humans have always had ( barring developmental issues) an innate sense that there is a right and wrong.

And throughout history, that sense of what is right or wrong has always been in a constant state of change, and if the past is any indication of the future, this sense of right and wrong will continue to change. Do you agree? Or do I need to provide examples to make my point.

Ken

Ken, you are confusing, again, what IS right and wrong with there being a right and wrong.
Again, and we talked about this, there can be no subjective ( what is) without objective ( that there is).

No, I’m simply pointing out the fact that what is called right or wrong has been in a constant state of change through out history, and will continue into the future.

Ken

Irrelevant.

Are there Really people who are Truly Ignorant Of Christianity?! Choosing to disregard it -- yes. Being satisfied with their families' belief system? Yes.

Treating 'Christianity' like they would a debate / discussion of 'whatever' is a bit dangerous. Because it's not simply a philosophical topic -- it's the difference between eternal life in heaven or hell. And That is going to be Very real in the future. A future that God's Word tells us about. We can't see it Now -- but we Can feel the effects of evil in this world.
So - we get side-tracked into discussions about 'right and wrong' and how it has possibly changed through time. The 'why' something is right or wrong is Meant to show that there Is a 'higher power' that gives the individual an inner sense OF. It's true that we Are responsible to each other -- Don't do 'this' to Me or My family. But there is God who we Are Ultimately responsible To. He / the Holy Spirit / is the One who gives us that inner feeling of unrest Or Rest regarding what is Really okay or not to do or say.
And - each person's relationship To God Through Jesus Christ is essential.

Are there Really people who are Truly Ignorant Of Christianity?!

Have you read some of the things that some atheists post against Christianity?
Yes, many people are ignorant of Christianity.
Do you think that everyone in Seychelles knows Christ?
Or Burkina Faso?
You think that every 6 year old Child in Kazakhstan knows Christ?
How about 16 year old kids in Benin?

My point is that the physical probability of the TRUE Gospel reaching everyone is very slim, though it gets less and less as times go by.
God KNOWS who are His, even those that don't know Him yet.

Kenny wrote:...That is not quite what I said. I said "what is PERCEIVED as right or wrong (remember I am the moral subjectivist) has changed over the years and will continue to in the future". Do you agree with that statement? I mean, what good is having an objective right and a wrong if nobody knows what it is?

Ken

You just explain why it is and was necessary for God to intervene and reveal what is objectively right and wrong. Myself and others have made that point repeatedly to you.

Thank you for explaining in your own words, Ken!

Impressed!

Humanity indeed twists and warps the standards of right and wrong thus proving that there are none righteous in God's sight, no not one. Why - because people love their dysfunctional ways more than what is right and seeks to pervert these and twist right and wrong to achieve their own ends.

In this we agree with you Kenny. Therefore, the law God gives condemns you for breaking the first 3 of the Ten Responsibilities known as the the Ten Commandments by your denial of God and exalting yourself as your own god.

What is being missed is that since God's intervention there is an accounting people will all face for their continual denying God's free gift by exchanging this by exalting their own superiority in mortal life. Such will face that accounting, that judgment, for denying, fighting against, and abandoning God...

Jesus paid our penalty for this by exposing/defining sin and dying in our place so that those who simply trust in His finished work of redemption alone will be released from this and find deliverance into a new life...

Ken your desire to destroy this message of the Cross and thus this action of yours counters your own morals of respect, thus, disproving that you can even respect and can do good.

Why are you here other than attempt to discredit us? The evidence already acquired in your own words over the years proves this as well - subterfuge is subterfuge.

Jesus died in your place so you can find stability in life that comes by actually knowing right from wrong. It is time for you to make up your mind about Jesus as no one knows the day they will pass on, die. Do not delay any longer. Come to Jesus...

...as of now, you have no stability or security as you can never be sure what is right or wrong.

Ken have you ever made a wrong turn on a road and got lost or made a terribly wrong decision? Guess what objective right and wrong does indeed exist... Life events prove this. God sent forth His definitions of objective right and wrong to humanity...

Choice is yours...

John 3:14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21
-
-
-

PaulSacramento wrote:

Are there Really people who are Truly Ignorant Of Christianity?!

Have you read some of the things that some atheists post against Christianity?
Yes, many people are ignorant of Christianity.
Do you think that everyone in Seychelles knows Christ?
Or Burkina Faso?
You think that every 6 year old Child in Kazakhstan knows Christ?
How about 16 year old kids in Benin?

My point is that the physical probability of the TRUE Gospel reaching everyone is very slim, though it gets less and less as times go by.
God KNOWS who are His, even those that don't know Him yet.

I believe I know the bible, and the concepts of Christianity better than most Christians do.

There's lots of atheists who dont know much about Christianity. China is full of such.

There may be Christians who understand what atheism is all about. Among those I would not likely count any who were born into the religion, fell away, and then returned.

duplicate

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Kenny wrote:

B. W. wrote:
Audie, Ken asked a question, and stated that he wanted to know our stance. We gave him our stance and answered his question thoroughly.

He will not accept our answers, plain and simple no matter what we say or use to prove it.

Only answer he will accept is the one he already has in his mind but that is unknown to us.

How does Romans 1:19-23, Job 33:13-40, John 3:19-21 not answer Ken's question?

Those bible scriptures has nothing to do with it. Audie made that statement in reference to ACB misrepresenting my words, implying I said something completely different than what I actually said, then responding to all that stuff I did not say. Those Romans, Job, and John bible scriptures have nothing to do with the conversation between ACB and I.

Ken

Well both you and Audie are ignoring what you said. You said what is right and wrong has changed and will continue to do so in the future,yet it has not as I explained. What is right and wrong has not and does not change despite evil. Me assuming that you think this was because of sinners and what they've done does not change it.This is how we look back in history and say these people were wrong.But you overlook that every time you say what is right and wrong about history confirms what the bible says in Romans 2:13-15. You see God knows you can be a good person and reject God's laws or do not even know about them,and we do too,so you are not saying anything we don't know.It still is not enough though to get to heaven,being a good person,although it is good for a society that a person chooses to be a good person but doesn't believe in God,etc.Every person has the ability to be a good person in them already with or without God according to scripture.

Maybe, just maybe the person who wrote the post knows what he said and what he meant; just possiby too, the one who cannot even punctuste properly let alone write a single grammatically correctly is the person who misread it.

Possibly too, it is a shabby bit of a passive- aggressive insult aimed at the author
from he-who-never ever insults anyone. Insulting me too, of course, suggesting I cannot correctly
read what is plainly there.

The passive- aggressive insults and the incompetent or deliberate misrepresentation
of what has been written is a consistent pattern with you.

If you sre not even aware of what you are doing, this could be an excellent time for a bit
of reflection. The fault is not always in other people, no matter how much as you try to put it there.

But hey, just ignore me, I am just one of those atheists whose words never are
worth anything. Just Satan's lies, right?

You don't like me grammar? It does not change that I was right.I can't help it you have not dealt with atheists like I have and I know the arguments they make and how they think.Sure not all atheists are the same but generally atheists do use talking points and it does reveal how they think.I'm not attacking you or anybody by dealing with general atheist arguments.Does the shoe fit or something?

"dont like me (sic) grammar"?

No abe, that is not it at all. You have vast difficulty following a conversation, or understanding what you read; your poor language skills are also revealed in your inability to write a coherent sentence., too. It is not that I dont like 'you" grammar. It is that you dont know what it going on.

Your claim to "know the arguments" is hollow, given the very low level of understanding you display. You cont respond on topic to me or Ken because you cant understand what was said. You just talk nonsense
because you have "dealt with atheists" and think you know what atheists generally might say, not what ken or I actually said.


With further regard to what you have to say about at heists there-
You who never insult anyone (directly) are continuing to do it indirectly, which, you may note, I identified as cowardly. Which it is.

I believe I know the bible, and the concepts of Christianity better than most Christians do.

That is a very bold statement.
Heck, I have a masters in Theological studies and I don't make that assertion.

C'mon, Paul. You know the rules. No one gets to generalize and stereotype but Audie.

Jac3510 wrote:C'mon, Paul. You know the rules. No one gets to generalize and stereotype but Audie.

Zactly.

PaulSacramento wrote:

I believe I know the bible, and the concepts of Christianity better than most Christians do.

That is a very bold statement.
Heck, I have a masters in Theological studies and I don't make that assertion.

Suture self; but you surely know that you could go forth and seek for the general level of education on any subject, and come back discouraged.

Start at WalMart.

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Kenny wrote: Those bible scriptures has nothing to do with it. Audie made that statement in reference to ACB misrepresenting my words, implying I said something completely different than what I actually said, then responding to all that stuff I did not say. Those Romans, Job, and John bible scriptures have nothing to do with the conversation between ACB and I.

Ken

Well both you and Audie are ignoring what you said. You said what is right and wrong has changed and will continue to do so in the future,yet it has not as I explained. What is right and wrong has not and does not change despite evil. Me assuming that you think this was because of sinners and what they've done does not change it.This is how we look back in history and say these people were wrong.But you overlook that every time you say what is right and wrong about history confirms what the bible says in Romans 2:13-15. You see God knows you can be a good person and reject God's laws or do not even know about them,and we do too,so you are not saying anything we don't know.It still is not enough though to get to heaven,being a good person,although it is good for a society that a person chooses to be a good person but doesn't believe in God,etc.Every person has the ability to be a good person in them already with or without God according to scripture.

Maybe, just maybe the person who wrote the post knows what he said and what he meant; just possiby too, the one who cannot even punctuste properly let alone write a single grammatically correctly is the person who misread it.

Possibly too, it is a shabby bit of a passive- aggressive insult aimed at the author
from he-who-never ever insults anyone. Insulting me too, of course, suggesting I cannot correctly
read what is plainly there.

The passive- aggressive insults and the incompetent or deliberate misrepresentation
of what has been written is a consistent pattern with you.

If you sre not even aware of what you are doing, this could be an excellent time for a bit
of reflection. The fault is not always in other people, no matter how much as you try to put it there.

But hey, just ignore me, I am just one of those atheists whose words never are
worth anything. Just Satan's lies, right?

You don't like me grammar? It does not change that I was right.I can't help it you have not dealt with atheists like I have and I know the arguments they make and how they think.Sure not all atheists are the same but generally atheists do use talking points and it does reveal how they think.I'm not attacking you or anybody by dealing with general atheist arguments.Does the shoe fit or something?

"dont like me (sic) grammar"?

No abe, that is not it at all. You have vast difficulty following a conversation, or understanding what you read; your poor language skills are also revealed in your inability to write a coherent sentence., too. It is not that I dont like 'you" grammar. It is that you dont know what it going on.

Your claim to "know the arguments" is hollow, given the very low level of understanding you display. You cont respond on topic to me or Ken because you cant understand what was said. You just talk nonsense
because you have "dealt with atheists" and think you know what atheists generally might say, not what ken or I actually said.


With further regard to what you have to say about at heists there-
You who never insult anyone (directly) are continuing to do it indirectly, which, you may note, I identified as cowardly. Which it is.

I'm going to deal with atheist arguments as I have been doing.And no I never insult people like you do and have because I have truth on my side and don't need insults. It seems you take it personally when I engage the way atheists think. I'm just dealing with the way atheists generally think and to you it is insulting indirectly. You do it directly to me and I ignore it and treat you with respect just like you and my grammar. You are implying I have poor grammar therefore ignore him and yet overlook the point I made that was truthful. Just because a person has good grammar does not mean they are right.And atheists will not know they were right or wrong until they die because they don't care to know they are right or not.This is because they hold to the default position which has absolutely no evidence behind it,yet they choose to live this way knowing it,only expecting evidence from everybody else,not themselves.If it is insulting atheists indirectly? I can't help it,but it is true based on what they tell us.

permignore, for the protection of the innocent.

"Ignorance of Christianity" -- anyone who has been reading this thread for a while --Should be knowledgeable Of Christianity now. Now - as for those countries that are 'closed' to Christianity / God's Word -- it Might just be Surprising how many of those people are Really 'closed' to Christianity. There are Many people Hungry for God's Word / accept salvation as soon as they hear it. But, their next door neighbor Also hears but rejects.

It's Almost like 'Atheism' is a badge of honor or something and Christianity is well -- what Some people accept and most don't know about Because -- so God Really has an alternative method -- just for those who haven't been able to hear or accept. Sorry -- but Scripture does Not back that up. No one is going to slip through the cracks by accident.

To whom is atheism a badge of honour?