Evidence for God from Science

DBowling wrote:
McMullin admits that his election run is a long shot. He isn't making any false claims about his likelihood of winning.
The people voting for him are voting based on principle, not because of his likelihood of winning.

I think you're right that he doesn't think he can win. According to the video in the following link, it seems, no he actually says, the reason he's running is to keep Trump from being president. And if his goal is to keep trump from becoming president, then he's running to get Hillary elected. To me, as a conservative, that's as close to something unforgivable as it gets. He calls himself a conservative, yet he's actively running to get Hillary elected.

I hope you can live with that.

http://therightscoop.com/evan-mcmullin- ... p-winning/

RickD wrote:

DBowling wrote:
McMullin admits that his election run is a long shot. He isn't making any false claims about his likelihood of winning.
The people voting for him are voting based on principle, not because of his likelihood of winning.

I think you're right that he doesn't think he can win. According to the video in the following link, it seems, no he actually says, the reason he's running is to keep Trump from being president. And if his goal is to keep trump from becoming president, then he's running to get Hillary elected. To me, as a conservative, that's as close to something unforgivable as it gets. He calls himself a conservative, yet he's actively running to get Hillary elected.

During the primaries, it was well known and often discussed that Trump was one of the few Republican candidates that could actually lose to Hillary.
This was why according to Wikileaks the DNC was working to 'legitimize' Trump during the Republican Primaries.

The people who voted for Trump during the Republican Primaries are the people who were truly voting for Hillary and as a bonus potentially give the Democrats the Senate as well.
When the Republicans chose Trump as their candidate, that was when they punched Hillary's ticket to the White House.

If you want to blame someone for getting Hillary elected, blame those who voted for Trump during the Primaries.
I think it was unforgivable for people who claim to be Conservative to choose a lying con-man who isn't even Conservative as the Republican presidential candidate, especially when all the polling at the time showed that he was the best shot Clinton had to get to the White House.

DBowling wrote:I think it was unforgivable for people who claim to be Conservative to choose a lying con-man who isn't even Conservative as the Republican presidential candidate

Mr. Trump is a Christian who has gotten closer to God as the months have gone by.

http://qpolitical.com/ben-carson-confir ... to-debate/

If Donald Trump was so terrible to the men and women he ran against during the primaries, why are so many now supporting the man? A perfect example of that is Dr. Ben Carson, who has proudly been a Trump supporter since the real estate billionaire became the nominee.

Prior to the last debate, Ben Carson noticed the GOP nominee doing something worthwhile, but of course no media outlet would report on something positive for the Trump campaign.

According to Carson, prior to last debate, Donald Trump was seen, and supposedly “prayed this morning with James Robison and we talked about it.”

Now, of course the media isn’t going to talk about Donald Trump humbling himself before the almighty, because that doesn’t serve their narrative, but as Carson notes, that is exactly what happened.

“He is coming ever closer to the Lord,” Carson commented. When asked if Trump had inquired about forgiveness from God, he simply replied “Yes. Absolutely.”

This news isn’t exactly surprising for evangelicals, who have tended to support GOP candidates over time, but it is a step in the right direction. Trump’s comments regarding his treatment of women have cost him a lot of support in the polls, but his base still believes he is the man to run this country.

Carson has said that while he “can’t defend the video” of Trump” he will “certainly continue to support him because I think what he represents is far superior to what Hillary represents.” Fortunately, Carson isn’t alone.

long with Carson, LIFE Outreach International founder James Robison believes that Trump is on the right path. Following the last debate, Robison stated that his meetings with Trump haven’t been for publicity, but rather, the candidate is really coming closer to God:

“When I have met with Mr. Trump, it wasn’t a meaningless photo op. There were no pictures and it wasn’t wasted time. I encouraged him, while assuring him of our love for him and his family, and concern for America’s future. But I also spoke bluntly and forcefully about where I’m convinced he needs to make essential changes in his approach and rhetoric while gaining the wisdom that comes from above to become the effective leader necessary to correct our nation’s dangerous course.”

Now, the liberal media is doing a good job of painting all of Trump’s supporters with a broad brush, but the fact of the matter is his base is so diverse that it’s impossible to lump them all into one group. The media, for some reason, just doesn’t get that Hillary is viewed as a huge threat to our nation.

Ben Carson said it best when discussing Trump’s comments from over a decade ago, “I’m a Christian voter and I’m not OK with it, but I can look at the bigger picture, and I think a lot of other Christians can look at the bigger picture too.”

Kat wrote:Mr. Trump is a Christian who has gotten closer to God as the months have gone by.

Trump is definitely open, but then I feel pennies just need to drop to be an authentic Christian.

This doesn't make any reason for voting for Trump, I think regardless of his authentic Christianity, and by that I mean someone who really does belong to Christ (which is only truly known by one but we can I think also to a degree spiritually discern).

I recall my wife's transition. There's like this state where they're just anti-Christian, attack and argue and even find it cute such "naivety" (belittle). Then there was a movement to a perhaps its not so silly but I can't force myself to truly believe, then a move onto defending Christianity here and there, and then... with the right situation "God" just hits them and a new understanding seems to be had immediately after (actually quite strange that one, is it a new understanding, or perhaps just seeing more clearly?).

Trump believes he's a Christian, and I think he's like many Christian that belong to some denomination i.e., "I"m Anglican" or "I'm Methodist" (not to pick on them) and it is more of a self-identifying thing, just a good way to live, rather than necessarily about truths to do with Christ and actual belief and understanding.

But, in Trump I see everything, but the last. Previous comments reveal to me he lacks understanding. He'll defend Christians, and he's surrounded by what appear to me very good Christians in Pence and Carson, who could lead him right. So then, I can imagine it's only a matter of time. HOWEVER, even if that does happen, sadly you'll have those who'll never forgive Trump and only point out what a horrible egomaniac he is. Even Christians on the "never Trump" bandwagon will continue holding him in contempt.

DBowling wrote:

RickD wrote:

DBowling wrote:
McMullin admits that his election run is a long shot. He isn't making any false claims about his likelihood of winning.
The people voting for him are voting based on principle, not because of his likelihood of winning.

I think you're right that he doesn't think he can win. According to the video in the following link, it seems, no he actually says, the reason he's running is to keep Trump from being president. And if his goal is to keep trump from becoming president, then he's running to get Hillary elected. To me, as a conservative, that's as close to something unforgivable as it gets. He calls himself a conservative, yet he's actively running to get Hillary elected.

During the primaries, it was well known and often discussed that Trump was one of the few Republican candidates that could actually lose to Hillary.
This was why according to Wikileaks the DNC was working to 'legitimize' Trump during the Republican Primaries.

The people who voted for Trump during the Republican Primaries are the people who were truly voting for Hillary and as a bonus potentially give the Democrats the Senate as well.
When the Republicans chose Trump as their candidate, that was when they punched Hillary's ticket to the White House.

If you want to blame someone for getting Hillary elected, blame those who voted for Trump during the Primaries.
I think it was unforgivable for people who claim to be Conservative to choose a lying con-man who isn't even Conservative as the Republican presidential candidate, especially when all the polling at the time showed that he was the best shot Clinton had to get to the White House.

Unless you're saying that Trump knows he has no chance of winning, and he's only running to get Hillary into office, then there's really no comparison. On one hand, we have voters who voted for Trump in the primaries because they liked what he had to offer, and were tired of the same old establishment bs. The people simply wanted an outsider, and Trump was their man. And on the other hand, we have a man in Evan Mcmullin, who calls himself a conservative, and puts himself out there as THE conservative choice in this election, all while admitting he's running to keep Trump from becoming president. In other words, if he succeeds in keeping Trump from becoming president, he succeeded in his goal to get Clinton elected. And somehow that's supposed to be conservative?

What a fraud. He's no conservative. He's a joke. An Egg McMuffin.

RickD wrote:I hope you can live with that.

http://therightscoop.com/evan-mcmullin- ... p-winning/

People with a seared conscience can live with just about anything, Rick.

Jac3510 wrote:

RickD wrote:I hope you can live with that.

http://therightscoop.com/evan-mcmullin- ... p-winning/

People with a seared conscience can live with just about anything, Rick.

I don't think DBowling has a seared conscience. He just needs to see the truth about McMuffin. And that McMuffin is certainly not the conservative choice, when the only real chance conservatives have to keep the SC conservative voting, is for trump to be elected.

RickD wrote: Unless you're saying that Trump knows he has no chance of winning, and he's only running to get Hillary into office, then there's really no comparison.

Trump has a chance of winning... it's unlikely... but it is possible.
McMullin has a chance of blocking both Clinton and Trump... it's unlikely... but it's possible.

And the primary difference between a Trump win and a McMullin block of both Clinton and Trump comes down to who wins Utah.

On one hand, we have voters who voted for Trump in the primaries because they liked what he had to offer, and were tired of the same old establishment bs.

And we have voters who are sickened by the dishonesty, corruption, and immorality that we have in both Clinton and Trump, and they like the true Conservatism that McMullin has to offer.

The people simply wanted an outsider, and Trump was their man. And on the other hand, we have a man in Evan Mcmullin, who calls himself a conservative, and puts himself out there as THE conservative choice in this election, all while admitting he's running to keep Trump from becoming president.

You keep neglecting to mention a key part of McMullin's goal.
He is running to block both Trump and Clinton from getting 270 Electoral Votes.

And again... the main difference between the electoral path to a Trump win and a McMullin block of both Trump and Clinton is who wins the State of Utah.

McMullin is also potentially laying the groundwork for a new Conservative movement, if the Republican party becomes the Trump party of Populist Nationalism following the election.

What a fraud. He's no conservative. He's a joke.

An excellent description of Donald Trump

From my perspective
If a person's conscience allows them to support a person who exudes dishonesty, corruption, bigotry, and immorality...
Well, that's their choice.
"I hope they can live with that"

Personally... My conscience won't let me go there.

DBowling,

Please focus on my point, without getting distracted with attacks on Trump. I'm not defending Trump, nor any of the stupid things he's said and done.

My point is that when we listen to McMuffin's own words, he says he's running to prevent trump from being president. Which means, he's running to put Hillary in office.

And no true conservative would run a presidential campaign, with the ultimate goal being, putting Hillary Clinton in office.

In a perfect world, we'd have a perfect republican nominee. In an imperfect world, we have two very imperfect candidates. One of those two will be the next president. Which one will do far more damage to our country? That is why we, as conservatives and Christians, need to vote for Trump. It's the only chance we have of keeping Clinton out of office.

RickD wrote:DBowling,

My point is that when we listen to McMuffin's own words, he says he's running to prevent trump from being president. Which means, he's running to put Hillary in office.

I thought I addressed that in my last post, but I'll give it another shot.

McMullin is running to electorally block both Clinton and Trump.
McMullin is trying to lay the groundwork for a new post election Conservative movement.

McMullin is not running to put Hillary in office.
That is a false narrative perpetuated by Trump supporters.

There is an easy way to demonstrate that narrative is factually untrue.
1. McMullin has never stated that he wants Hillary to be President.
2. McMullin has repeatedly stated that his goal is to electorally block both Clinton and Trump.
3. The people repeating the "vote for McMullin is a vote for Hillary" narrative are Trump supporters.
4. McMullin supporters see their vote as a vote against the dishonesty and corruption of both Clinton and Trump
5. McMullin supporters see their vote as a vote for the only truly conservative presidential candidate.
6. Clinton supporters assert that a vote for any third party candidate (including McMullin) is really a vote for Trump.

Of course Clinton and Trump partisans will attempt to distort a vote for anyone other than their candidate.
But the false narrative of the Trump partisans is just as inaccurate as equivalent narrative that comes from Clinton partisans.

That is why we, as conservatives and Christians, need to vote for Trump. It's the only chance we have of keeping Clinton out of office.

The Republicans already crossed the Rubicon when they knowingly chose the candidate most likely to lose to Clinton as their presidential candidate.

I really don't care what Clinton or trump partisans have to say. It ultimately comes down to mcmullin's own words:

"We’re not trying to win 270 votes. Of course that would be great…we will be happy to have prevented someone who I believe is a true authoritarian from taking power in the United States and that’s Donald Trump.”

A vote for mcmullin, is a vote for Clinton, and everything she stands for. A vote for mcmullin, is a vote for late-term, partial birth abortions, liberal Supreme Court judges, a one payer healthcare system, fundamentally changing the 2nd amendment, etc.

Since Trump needs to win as many swing states as possible, there is a much greater chance that a mcmullin win in Utah, would mean a Clinton presidency.

RickD wrote:I really don't care what Clinton or trump partisans have to say. It ultimately comes down to mcmullin's own words:

"We’re not trying to win 270 votes. Of course that would be great…we will be happy to have prevented someone who I believe is a true authoritarian from taking power in the United States and that’s Donald Trump.”

And there's nothing in there about McMullin wanting Clinton to be President.
And you won't find any quotes from McMullin stating that he wants Hillary to be President either... because they don't exist

Here's a part of the interview that you accidentally failed to include

"What we are trying to do is earn enough electoral votes to block Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump if the race between them is so close that we are able to do that by winning one or two states."

McMullin's stated goal is that if the election gets close enough, his goal is to electorally block BOTH Clinton and Trump.
Does McMullin want to prevent Trump from becoming President? Yes
Does McMullin want to prevent Clinton from becoming President? Yes

The Trump campaign falsely asserts that a vote for McMullin is a vote for Hillary.
The Clinton campaign falsely asserts that a vote for McMullin is a vote for Trump.
The assertions from both campaigns are equally false.

A vote for mcmullin, is a vote for Clinton, and everything she stands for.

As I've pointed out... over and over again...
That is simply a factually untrue narrative perpetuated by the Trump campaign and Trump supporters.

And a conclusion based on a factually untrue premise is equally untrue.

RickD wrote:
I really don't care what Clinton or trump partisans have to say. It ultimately comes down to mcmullin's own words:
"We’re not trying to win 270 votes. Of course that would be great…we will be happy to have prevented someone who I believe is a true authoritarian from taking power in the United States and that’s Donald Trump.”

DBowling wrote:
And there's nothing in there about McMullin wanting Clinton to be President.
And you won't find any quotes from McMullin stating that he wants Hillary to be President either... because they don't exist

I don't doubt that mcmullin doesn't want Clinton to be president. But the practicality of what he said, can't be avoided. Nor can the practicality of his campaign. If he will be happy to prevent Trump from being president, he will be happy while Clinton wins. There's no other practical outcome.

DBowling wrote:
Here's a part of the interview that you accidentally failed to include

"What we are trying to do is earn enough electoral votes to block Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump if the race between them is so close that we are able to do that by winning one or two states."

I didn't fail to include that. I understand what he said. But it's simply not realistic. If he wins Utah, what will most likely happen, is that by keeping Trump from winning Utah, mcmullin will have prevented trump, not Clinton, from getting 270. Trump needs to win the swing states.

DBowling wrote:
McMullin's stated goal is that if the election gets close enough, his goal is to electorally block BOTH Clinton and Trump.
Does McMullin want to prevent Trump from becoming President? Yes
Does McMullin want to prevent Clinton from becoming President? Yes

Even you have admitted that mcmullin blocking both trump and Clinton, is an extremely long shot.

Be honest. If mcmullin wins Utah, will that keep Trump from getting to 270, or will it keep both Trump and Clinton from getting 270?

The only practical thing mcmullin can affect, is Utah. And Utah being a key state for Trump, means Trump pretty much needs to win Utah, to have a shot at 270. So again, if mcmullin wins Utah, he may be giving Clinton the election, not preventing her, as he claims to want to do.

His "goal" of preventing both Clinton and Trump, is not based in reality.

RickD wrote: Be honest. If mcmullin wins Utah, will that keep Trump from getting to 270, or will it keep both Trump and Clinton from getting 270?

In fact, I was looking at that scenario this morning.

Let's start with the RCP No Tossup Map
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... s_ups.html

Today the No Tossup map has:
Clinton 304
Trump 234

Now let's look at three of the closest states that are currently in the Clinton camp in the RCP no tossup map that Trump would have to flip to win. (Florida and Ohio are currently counted for Trump in the RCP no tossup map)
Nevada (6) - RCP Clinton +1.7
North Carolina (15) - RCP Clinton +2.9
Pennsylvania (20) - Clinton +5.2

If Trump can flip these three states then the electoral count becomes
Clinton 263
Trump 275
And Trump wins.

Now... Enter McMullin
If Trump can flip Nevada, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania
And
If McMullin can win Utah
Then the electoral counts become
Clinton 263
Trump 269
McMullin 6
And McMullin successfully electorally blocks both Clinton and Trump.

As you can see the electoral path to a Trump win and the path to a McMullin block of both Trump and Clinton is similar... the difference is who wins Utah.

You're playing games a little DBowling.

It is clear that McMullin sees Hillary as a lesser evil, his attacks are always pointed at Trump, and as Rick quoted his words are to do with blocking Trump. He wants Hillary in office more than Trump.

Second, if you really think McMullin will block both, please tell me what then happens in the election? It's only a block if either are prevented from getting in. Yet, trust me, one WILL still get in. All he would have done is block popular vote.

In any case, McMullin's cards are clear, and I don't see he would be a good president either. He's very opaque, and has been involved in the agendas of others in the Middle East that I feel smell of corruption, destablisation of states, and loss of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives many of whom were Christian.