Evidence for God from Science

Yeah, I know I have to keep from doing something stupid with those laws....especially when I'm an ant surrounded by giants (as far as intellect and schooling goes). Weird idea on intelligence since the laws pertain to the physical world....I'm not sure yet if intelligence is genetic, nature, or supernatural (psychologists say it's genetic and nurture....but they ignore the mind). But on the magnetic field...the core isn't, as far I have ever heard, being injected with energy from the universe. I think I've read the heat of the core is derived from the magnetic field, which is derived from a decaying electrical current. It's not in a peer reviewed article so this probably shouldn't be here. But while the cat's away the mice will play,

Gen 1:3-5 -The First Day : God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw the light, and saw that it was good. God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. There was evening and there was morning, one day.

Gen 1:6-8 - The Second Day: God said, "Let there be an expanse in the middle of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." God made the expanse, and divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse sky. There was evening and there was morning, a second day.

Gen 1:9-13 - The Third Day: God said, "Let the waters under the sky be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear;" and it was so. God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good. God said, "Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with its seed in it, on the earth;" and it was so. The earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with its seed in it, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day.

Gen 1:14-19 - The Fourth Day: God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of sky to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of sky to give light on the earth;" and it was so. God made the two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of sky to give light to the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

Gen 1:20-23 --The Fifth Day: God said, "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of sky." God created the large sea creatures, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind. God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

Gen 1:24-31 - The Sixth Day: God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, livestock, creeping things, and animals of the earth after their kind;" and it was so. God made the animals of the earth after their kind, and the livestock after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind. God saw that it was good. God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them. God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree, which bears fruit yielding seed. It will be your food. To every animal of the earth, and to every bird of the sky, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food;" and it was so. and there was morning, a sixth day.

Gen 2:1-3 - The Seventh Day: The heavens and the earth were finished, and all their vast array. On the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. God blessed the seventh day, and made it holy, because he rested in it from all his work which he had created and made.


Ok one problem I see is that, Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep. God's Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters, does not fit into the 7 days.
If indeed there is Gaps in Genesis I suggest there is one between Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3.

Genesis 1:1 says in the Beginning, not day one. But Albert Barnes explains it best.

Genesis 1:1 indicates the relative superiority, in point of magnitude, of the heavens to the earth, by giving the former the first place in the order of words. It is thus in accordance with the first elements of astronomical science.
It is therefore pregnant with physical and metaphysical, with ethical and theological instruction for the first man, for the predecessors and contemporaries of Moses, and for all the succeeding generations of mankind.
This verse forms an integral part of the narrative, and not a mere heading as some have imagined. This is abundantly evident from the following reasons: 1. It has the form of a narrative, not of a superscription. 2. The conjunctive particle connects the second verse with it; which could not be if it were a heading. 3. The very next sentence speaks of the earth as already in existence, and therefore its creation must be recorded in the first verse. 4. In the first verse the heavens take precedence of the earth; but in the following verses all things, even the sun, moon, and stars seem to be but appendages to the earth. Thus, if it were a heading, it would not correspond with the narrative. 5. If the first verse belongs to the narrative, order pervades the whole recital; whereas; if it is a heading, the most hopeless confusion enters. Light is called into being before the sun, moon, and stars. The earth takes precedence of the heavenly luminaries. The stars, which are coordinate with the sun, and preordinate to the moon, occupy the third place in the narrative of their manifestation. For any or all of these reasons it is obvious that the first verse forms a part of the narrative.
As soon as it is settled that the narrative begins in the first verse, another question comes up for determination; namely, whether the heavens here mean the heavenly bodies that circle in their courses through the realms of space, or the mere space itself which they occupy with their perambulations. It is manifest that the heavens here denote the heavenly orbs themselves - the celestial mansions with their existing inhabitants - for the following cogent reasons:
1. Creation implies something created, and not mere space, which is nothing, and cannot be said to be created.
2. Since “the earth” here obviously means the substance of the planet we inhabit, so, by parity of reason, the heavens must mean the substance of the celestial luminaries, the heavenly hosts of stars and spirits.
3. “The heavens” are placed before “the earth,” and therefore must mean that reality which is greater than the earth, for if they meant “space,” and nothing real, they ought not to be before the earth.
4. “The heavens” are actually mentioned in the verse, and therefore must mean a real thing, for if they meant nothing at all, they ought not to be mentioned.
5. The heavens must denote the heavenly realities, because this imparts a rational order to the whole chapter; whereas an unaccountable derangement appears if the sun, moon, and stars do not come into existence till the fourth day, though the sun is the center of light and the measurer of the daily period.
For any or all of these reasons, it is undeniable that the heavens in the first verse mean the fixed and planetary orbs of space; and, consequently, that these uncounted tenants of the skies, along with our own planet, are all declared to be in existence before the commencement of the six days’ creation.
Hence, it appears that the first verse records an event antecedent to those described in the subsequent verses. This is the absolute and aboriginal creation of the heavens and all that in them is, and of the earth in its primeval state. The former includes all those resplendent spheres which are spread before the wondering eye of man, as well as those hosts of planets and of spiritual and angelic beings which are beyond the range of his natural vision. This brings a simple, unforced meaning out of the whole chapter, and discloses a beauty and a harmony in the narrative which no other interpretation can afford. In this way the subsequent verses reveal a new effort of creative power, by which the pre-Adamic earth, in the condition in which it appears in the second verse, is prepared for the residence of a fresh animal creation, including the human race. The process is represented as it would appear to primeval man in his infantile simplicity, with whom his own position would naturally be the fixed point to which everything else was to be referred.

How long do people think it'll take for God to create the new heaven and new earth?

The previous scriptures seem to be a history.
Gen 2:4 This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.



Gen 1:11 God said, "Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with its seed in it, on the earth;" and it was so.
Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with its seed in it, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.

Kind of a contradiction is it not? If plants were already growing then why in Gen 2:2 is there none.

Gen 2:5 No plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth. There was not a man to till the ground,



Gen 1:21 God created the large sea creatures, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind. God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
Gen 1:23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
Gen 1:24 God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, livestock, creeping things, and animals of the earth after their kind;" and it was so.
Gen 1:25 God made the animals of the earth after their kind, and the livestock after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind. God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them.
Gen 1:28 God blessed them. God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Here is another here it happened again. What happened in the first Scriptures.

Gen 2:19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field, and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. Whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
How long did Adam sleep?
Gen 2:21 The LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on the man, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.
How long was the deep sleep.
Seems possibly another gap.
John Darby said this: This revelation from God is not a history by Him of all that He has done, but what has been given to man for his profit, the truth as to what he has to say to. Its object is to communicate to man all that regards his own relationship with God.

RGeeB wrote:How long do people think it'll take for God to create the new heaven and new earth?

perhaps mars is the new heaven mars is the way earth probably was in the Beginning when God created it lol

serriously thought Gods plan is from before the beginning,
how long did our spirits hang around before we were given bodies. as it says in Gen 1:27 God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them. Well his image is a spirit, so have we been around since then? If our aim is to earn our place beside him in eternity, what did happin that we lost it, if we were the creation for 1:27 what did we do? is this why Satan and his angels were removed from god? Whatever happined between the creation of man and woman and the creation of adam God obviosly doesn't think we need to know.
Is he giving us a second chance, he even gives us the answers to the test.
Did we fail as spirits? so he gives us a body that will eventully die, as our last chance to redeem ourselves.

Also per gen 1:3 before for there was light, there is not mention of time.
Also remember light was created before the sun and the moon.

They have to be created from scratch during the final judgement, since everything is destroyed before then. From descriptions in Revelation 21, the new earth seems to be like an Edenic version of our present earth. Hell (the lake of fire) seems to survive this destruction and guilty souls find their way there immediately. No reason why souls inheriting eternal life have to wait in a spirit realm, if new creation takes a while to be completed?

still doesn't explain where the first men and women went who were made in gods image.
and god does say i knew you before you were in the womb. Perhaps spirits are sleeping as adam did waiting for eve.
i would suggest that the new earth may kind of exist already as god was in heaven and here on earth as jesus. he is the past the present and the future. he planned it therefore in the future he has spoken it into existence as he did the earth.

Good point about the new heaven and Earth RGBee. Couldn't be mars btw, because we have a new heaven too. Could that mean a new universe? Possibly...

Even if I agree with the gap before the first day, that is fine. So the universe existed before the Earth was being formed. The point still remains that once God creates light on the Earth, there are 6 days in which the Earth moves from empty and void to the world we know with sun and moon, oceans, land, plants, animals, and people. This position still differs from Day-Age substantially, and really is more a variant of Apperance of Age. For instance, if the formless Earth is old (which I'm ok with) then it still does not explain why living things can be found in ice layers dating back hundreds of thousands of years, etc.

Deborah,
I don't agree with your 'pre-created' spirit theory either. I think the male and female made in God's image were Adam and Eve. We had a thread a while back which discussed mankind's ability to reproduce spiritually as well as physically which I thought was really interesting... It's an alternative to how our soul comes into being.

It is indeed possible that the new heaven and earth already exist. In fact, isn't Jesus preparing our place in it?

Is it just me or is Felgar having a Slow day at work

bizzt wrote:Is it just me or is Felgar having a Slow day at work

LOL...

Hey that's only the 2nd post this morning. I wouldn't characterize that as excessive. But ya, it's a fairly slow morning. We have half-days on Friday, so that doesn't help focus too much in the morning.

this is a topic on old earth v young earth.


maybe we all got off topic abit, even if it is 7 literal days, but we have two possible gaps ( I don;t know if they are or aren't)
#1 gen 1:1-2

Gen 2:1-3 belong with Gen 1 as they talk of creation.

Gen 2:1 states that the heavens and the earth were finished, and all their vast array.

There was no man in Gods image until the sixth day, so how can the days be a literal 24 hours? Gods time is not ours. he can see our one day as one thousand years.
It's a bit much to suggest that day one to day five were in Gods time and day six is a 24 hour day.

Gen 2:4 says This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

Then gen 2:5 goes on to say how there were not plants in the field and no man to till the ground. If Gen 2:1 states that the heavens and earth were finished then why were there no plants and no man.

If we believe the word of god is ordered then God created animals before he created man.

Gen 1:24 God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, livestock, creeping things, and animals of the earth after their kind;" and it was so.
Gen 1:25 God made the animals of the earth after their kind, and the livestock after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind. God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them.

yet in Gen 2:7 The LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. he creates man,
Gen 2:8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward, in `Eden, and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 Out of the ground the LORD God made every tree to grow that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the middle of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. he created the garden and plants,Gen 2:18 The LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him." Gen 2:19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field, and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. Whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. Gen 2:20 The man gave names to all livestock, and to the birds of the sky, and to every animal of the field; but for man there was not found a helper suitable for him.

in the chapter of gen it clearly states man was created, then plants?, then animals and birds, then woman. these things were created in a different order than in gen 1. it's the same author so why is it so?

It was not until the 4the day that god created the moon and the sun.
he said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of sky to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years; this seems to be when time as we know it started, it started more than half way through creation.
therefore how could day 1 to day 3 have been 24 hours days ? and why would god have 7 days of creation with 3 days being different.

Woohoo, got post nr 5000!

[/quote]Oops, I missed that part...*looks around* Good, august isn't here...*secertly pulls out book*

LOL

Nope, this has not been "firmly established". See the previous 3 days worth of discussion.

Felgar wrote:

I know you asked KMart but I thought I would reinforce his notion. Quite simply, because that is the most obvious, literal, interpretation of the scripture. Were there ages, why the reference to evening and morning on all 6 days!

Rev. 7:1 (KJV)
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth

Since the most obvious, literal interpretation of Scripture here is that for the earth to have four corners is that it is flat, let's all believe that, shall we?

I still like the Apperance of Age theory because it reconciles the literal biblical interpretation with scientific findings.

How is this reconciled with what you said above, about the simplest explanation?

kmart wrote:

It's not in a peer reviewed article so this probably shouldn't be here.

You are learning.

Oops, I missed that part...*looks around* Good, august isn't here...*secertly pulls out book*

LOL

Nope, this has not been "firmly established". See the previous 3 days worth of discussion.

Felgar wrote:

I know you asked KMart but I thought I would reinforce his notion. Quite simply, because that is the most obvious, literal, interpretation of the scripture. Were there ages, why the reference to evening and morning on all 6 days!

Rev. 7:1 (KJV)
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth

Since the most obvious, literal interpretation of Scripture here is that for the earth to have four corners is that it is flat, let's all believe that, shall we?

I still like the Apperance of Age theory because it reconciles the literal biblical interpretation with scientific findings

How is this reconciled with what you said above, about the simplest explanation?

kmart wrote:

It's not in a peer reviewed article so this probably shouldn't be here.

You are learning.

okie my RL friend assures me that Gen 1 is about creation, gen 2:1-3 belong with creation and the rest of gen 2 talk of something different and that man in both chapters means adam and eve and she explained it in a way that a newbie christian could understand lol