Evidence for God from Science

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:03 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:59 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:53 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:42 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:31 am Didn't sin also degenerate God's social intentions?

Yes. I did not say or imply otherwise so what is your point (he asks relunctantly)?

It seems to me the point you're making could just as easily fit to speak against God's action or inaction in His creation.
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I don't see how since that's nowhere remotely near my focal point, i.e. the most basic social structure: family.

I don't think the focal point matters as much as what the point says overall...and additionally I would also argue that God's focal point IS Family!.
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Glad to see you agree with me.

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:06 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:03 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:59 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:53 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:42 am

Yes. I did not say or imply otherwise so what is your point (he asks relunctantly)?

It seems to me the point you're making could just as easily fit to speak against God's action or inaction in His creation.
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I don't see how since that's nowhere remotely near my focal point, i.e. the most basic social structure: family.

I don't think the focal point matters as much as what the point says overall...and additionally I would also argue that God's focal point IS Family!.
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Glad to see you agree with me.

...that God is a hypocrite for allowing/advocating/ready for the ramifications of allowing his notion of FAMILY to suffer?
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BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:07 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:06 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:03 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:59 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 9:53 am

It seems to me the point you're making could just as easily fit to speak against God's action or inaction in His creation.
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I don't see how since that's nowhere remotely near my focal point, i.e. the most basic social structure: family.

I don't think the focal point matters as much as what the point says overall...and additionally I would also argue that God's focal point IS Family!.
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Glad to see you agree with me.

...that God is a hypocrite for allowing/advocating/ready for the ramifications of allowing his notion of FAMILY to suffer?
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Seriously man, stop attributing to me ideas of your own invention.

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:15 am Seriously man, stop attributing to me ideas of your own invention.

I'm sorry, Byblos...I'm trying to understand and so far it seems you've not enlightened me to your point, but rather your point seems to keep in line with what it seems you're saying...that allowing for something and/or being prepared for the ramifications of allowing something not supported, is hypocritical.

How is that not exactly what God did in allowing sin to degrade, if not essentially annihilate, God's 'family'?

You've made some vague explanations, but so far nothing that is not also inclusive of God's action or inaction in His creation.
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BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:35 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:15 am Seriously man, stop attributing to me ideas of your own invention.

I'm sorry, Byblos...I'm trying to understand and so far it seems you've not enlightened me to your point, but rather your point seems to keep in line with what it seems you're saying...that allowing for something and/or being prepared for the ramifications of allowing something not supported, is hypocritical.

How is that not exactly what God did in allowing sin to degrade, if not essentially annihilate, God's 'family'?

You've made some vague explanations, but so far nothing that is not also inclusive of God's action or inaction in His creation.
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For the last time, I was merely pointing out to Ed (and whoever supports same sex civil unions) that they would be hypocrites if they didn't also support polygamous civil unions. But if they're not hypocrites and they do support polygamous civil unions (and that comes to fruition, I don't see how it can't, the way things are progressing), they also ought to be prepared for the ramifications of the inevitable and complete disintegration of society as we know it. If that's not clear to you and you inexplicably still insist that I am somehow implying God is a hypocrite, then please feel free to keep building straw men and tearing them down. I want no part of it.

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:51 am For the last time, I was merely pointing out to Ed (and whoever supports same sex civil unions) that they would be hypocrites if they didn't also support polygamous civil unions. But if they're not hypocrites and they do support polygamous civil unions (and that comes to fruition, I don't see how it can't, the way things are progressing), they also ought to be prepared for the ramifications of the inevitable and complete disintegration of society as we know it. If that's not clear to you and you inexplicably still insist that I am somehow implying God is a hypocrite, then please feel free to keep building straw men and tearing them down. I want no part of it.

That's just it...the same argument could be made against God for allowing sin to enter and ruin His creation.

Do I think you're saying God is a hypocrite? No...not at all. Stop taking everything so personal.

I've been asking about applying this logic elsewhere and how it CAN say something I don't feel you're trying to say.

That's not building a straw man ( why would I in this context if both you and I are believers! ), that's applying logic.
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BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:58 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:51 am For the last time, I was merely pointing out to Ed (and whoever supports same sex civil unions) that they would be hypocrites if they didn't also support polygamous civil unions. But if they're not hypocrites and they do support polygamous civil unions (and that comes to fruition, I don't see how it can't, the way things are progressing), they also ought to be prepared for the ramifications of the inevitable and complete disintegration of society as we know it. If that's not clear to you and you inexplicably still insist that I am somehow implying God is a hypocrite, then please feel free to keep building straw men and tearing them down. I want no part of it.

That's just it...the same argument could be made against God for allowing sin to enter and ruin His creation.

Do I think you're saying God is a hypocrite? No...not at all. Stop taking everything so personal.

I've been asking about applying this logic elsewhere and how it CAN say something I don't feel you're trying to say.

That's not building a straw man ( why would I in this context if both you and I are believers! ), that's applying logic.
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It's a leap that you and you alone made. I do not share your opinion that the same argument can be made as you claim nor do I think it's logical in any way. After all, same sex unions are a reality. Are you then claiming that A) God is a hypocrite for allowing it? Or B) that God had no control over it? Which is it, A or B? (option C is reserved for courtroom tactics).

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:04 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:58 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:51 am For the last time, I was merely pointing out to Ed (and whoever supports same sex civil unions) that they would be hypocrites if they didn't also support polygamous civil unions. But if they're not hypocrites and they do support polygamous civil unions (and that comes to fruition, I don't see how it can't, the way things are progressing), they also ought to be prepared for the ramifications of the inevitable and complete disintegration of society as we know it. If that's not clear to you and you inexplicably still insist that I am somehow implying God is a hypocrite, then please feel free to keep building straw men and tearing them down. I want no part of it.

That's just it...the same argument could be made against God for allowing sin to enter and ruin His creation.

Do I think you're saying God is a hypocrite? No...not at all. Stop taking everything so personal.

I've been asking about applying this logic elsewhere and how it CAN say something I don't feel you're trying to say.

That's not building a straw man ( why would I in this context if both you and I are believers! ), that's applying logic.
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It's a leap that you and you alone made. I do not share your opinion that the same argument can be made as you claim nor do I think it's logical in any way. After all, same sex unions are a reality. Are you then claiming that A) God is a hypocrite for allowing it? Or B) that God had no control over it? Which is it, A or B? (option C is reserved for courtroom tactics).

I'm not the one that made a claim that something is hypocritical...hence why I'm asking YOU.

That you think it's a leap is to deny what it is you're actually saying. You're saying that if a person advocates for civil unions, that not advocating for the things you listed is hypocritical. God advocates that we do as we will, does that then advocate WHAT we do? That is what it seems you're saying...and instead of attempting to reword it even for the sake of the POSSIBILITY of being misinterpreted, you double-down and insist you are right.
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BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:16 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:04 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:58 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:51 am For the last time, I was merely pointing out to Ed (and whoever supports same sex civil unions) that they would be hypocrites if they didn't also support polygamous civil unions. But if they're not hypocrites and they do support polygamous civil unions (and that comes to fruition, I don't see how it can't, the way things are progressing), they also ought to be prepared for the ramifications of the inevitable and complete disintegration of society as we know it. If that's not clear to you and you inexplicably still insist that I am somehow implying God is a hypocrite, then please feel free to keep building straw men and tearing them down. I want no part of it.

That's just it...the same argument could be made against God for allowing sin to enter and ruin His creation.

Do I think you're saying God is a hypocrite? No...not at all. Stop taking everything so personal.

I've been asking about applying this logic elsewhere and how it CAN say something I don't feel you're trying to say.

That's not building a straw man ( why would I in this context if both you and I are believers! ), that's applying logic.
.
.

It's a leap that you and you alone made. I do not share your opinion that the same argument can be made as you claim nor do I think it's logical in any way. After all, same sex unions are a reality. Are you then claiming that A) God is a hypocrite for allowing it? Or B) that God had no control over it? Which is it, A or B? (option C is reserved for courtroom tactics).

I'm not the one that made a claim that something is hypocritical...hence why I'm asking YOU.

That you think it's a leap is to deny what it is you're actually saying. You're saying that if a person advocates for civil unions, that not advocating for the things you listed is hypocritical. God advocates that we do as we will, does that then advocate WHAT we do? That is what it seems you're saying...and instead of attempting to reword it even for the sake of the POSSIBILITY of being misinterpreted, you double-down and insist you are right.
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Whatever you say dude.

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:21 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:16 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:04 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:58 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:51 am For the last time, I was merely pointing out to Ed (and whoever supports same sex civil unions) that they would be hypocrites if they didn't also support polygamous civil unions. But if they're not hypocrites and they do support polygamous civil unions (and that comes to fruition, I don't see how it can't, the way things are progressing), they also ought to be prepared for the ramifications of the inevitable and complete disintegration of society as we know it. If that's not clear to you and you inexplicably still insist that I am somehow implying God is a hypocrite, then please feel free to keep building straw men and tearing them down. I want no part of it.

That's just it...the same argument could be made against God for allowing sin to enter and ruin His creation.

Do I think you're saying God is a hypocrite? No...not at all. Stop taking everything so personal.

I've been asking about applying this logic elsewhere and how it CAN say something I don't feel you're trying to say.

That's not building a straw man ( why would I in this context if both you and I are believers! ), that's applying logic.
.
.

It's a leap that you and you alone made. I do not share your opinion that the same argument can be made as you claim nor do I think it's logical in any way. After all, same sex unions are a reality. Are you then claiming that A) God is a hypocrite for allowing it? Or B) that God had no control over it? Which is it, A or B? (option C is reserved for courtroom tactics).

I'm not the one that made a claim that something is hypocritical...hence why I'm asking YOU.

That you think it's a leap is to deny what it is you're actually saying. You're saying that if a person advocates for civil unions, that not advocating for the things you listed is hypocritical. God advocates that we do as we will, does that then advocate WHAT we do? That is what it seems you're saying...and instead of attempting to reword it even for the sake of the POSSIBILITY of being misinterpreted, you double-down and insist you are right.
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Whatever you say dude.

So then you are saying God is a hypocrite...
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BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:23 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:21 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:16 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:04 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:58 am

That's just it...the same argument could be made against God for allowing sin to enter and ruin His creation.

Do I think you're saying God is a hypocrite? No...not at all. Stop taking everything so personal.

I've been asking about applying this logic elsewhere and how it CAN say something I don't feel you're trying to say.

That's not building a straw man ( why would I in this context if both you and I are believers! ), that's applying logic.
.
.

It's a leap that you and you alone made. I do not share your opinion that the same argument can be made as you claim nor do I think it's logical in any way. After all, same sex unions are a reality. Are you then claiming that A) God is a hypocrite for allowing it? Or B) that God had no control over it? Which is it, A or B? (option C is reserved for courtroom tactics).

I'm not the one that made a claim that something is hypocritical...hence why I'm asking YOU.

That you think it's a leap is to deny what it is you're actually saying. You're saying that if a person advocates for civil unions, that not advocating for the things you listed is hypocritical. God advocates that we do as we will, does that then advocate WHAT we do? That is what it seems you're saying...and instead of attempting to reword it even for the sake of the POSSIBILITY of being misinterpreted, you double-down and insist you are right.
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Whatever you say dude.

So then you are saying God is a hypocrite...
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According to you I'm saying a whole lotta things I'm not saying so I wouldn't be surprised in the least to discover I am saying what you claim I'm saying ... according to you.

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:28 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:23 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:21 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:16 am

Byblos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 11:04 am

It's a leap that you and you alone made. I do not share your opinion that the same argument can be made as you claim nor do I think it's logical in any way. After all, same sex unions are a reality. Are you then claiming that A) God is a hypocrite for allowing it? Or B) that God had no control over it? Which is it, A or B? (option C is reserved for courtroom tactics).

I'm not the one that made a claim that something is hypocritical...hence why I'm asking YOU.

That you think it's a leap is to deny what it is you're actually saying. You're saying that if a person advocates for civil unions, that not advocating for the things you listed is hypocritical. God advocates that we do as we will, does that then advocate WHAT we do? That is what it seems you're saying...and instead of attempting to reword it even for the sake of the POSSIBILITY of being misinterpreted, you double-down and insist you are right.
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Whatever you say dude.

So then you are saying God is a hypocrite...
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According to you I'm saying a whole lotta things I'm not saying so I wouldn't be surprised in the least to discover I am saying what you claim I'm saying ... according to you.

You did say, "Whatever you say dude."
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Bavarian - why do you have a devilish, sinister-looking avatar?

Philip wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 2:26 pm Bavarian - why do you have a devilish, sinister-looking avatar?

That's my best smile...!
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BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 2:57 pm

Philip wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 2:26 pm Bavarian - why do you have a devilish, sinister-looking avatar?

That's my best smile...!
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There's an SDA church down the road from me. They all have a Satanic look about them.*
*sarcasm used.