Evidence for God from Science

ochotseat wrote:

Mastermind wrote: Most Christians go to church on Sunday rather than the Sabbath so no.
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You're now claiming that most Christians don't care about the 10 Commandments?

If they do they're not showing iit.

You don't seem to know the difference between murdering and killing.

How so?

If you think that way, then don't ask if I believe in Protestant doctrine.

I asked you if you're a Calvinist which usually refers to the free will argument. I couldn't care less about your denomination.

Mastermind wrote: Depends how developed the unborn baby is and if the mother's life is in danger.

The former does not. And american law allows any abortion without restrictions if I'm not mistaken.

Mastermind wrote: No, I don't..

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Don't lie. We've all seen it.[/quote]

Now you're telling me when I post. Fantastic.

ocho:

i don't find it necessary to follow the majority. i'm not a mindless sycophant. i don't care if it's "lawful." i don't care if it's acceptable. it's wrong.

Prodigal Son wrote:ocho:

i don't find it necessary to follow the majority. i'm not a mindless sycophant. i don't care if it's "lawful." i don't care if it's acceptable. it's wrong.

I agree. Just because something is lawful does not mean that we should do it, because we answer to a higher power. But it doesn't really work the other way - if something i sunlawful then we shouldn't do it (even if we wouldn't consider immoral), because then we a governed by the command to respect our leaders.

Felgar wrote: Just because something is lawful does not mean that we should do it, because we answer to a higher power. But it doesn't really work the other way - if something is unlawful then we shouldn't do it (even if we wouldn't consider it immoral), because then we are governed by the command to respect our leaders.

Are you saying we shouldn't ever do anything which is unlawful ? I don't think it is that simple.

How about:
1) putting coins in someone else's about-to-expire parking meter
2) feeding a homeless person
3) destroying a vacant abortion clinic
4) revolting against your king
5) helping a run-away slave or concentration-camp inmate to elude capture

sandy

sandy_mcd wrote: 3) destroying a vacant abortion clinic

Depends if it's private property.
Your analogies don't work when we're talking about criminals.

Mastermind wrote: If they do they're not showing iit.

They're only human like you, which is probably why you've been insulting people out here.

Mastermind wrote: How so?

Look at what you said earlier.

Mastermind wrote: I asked you if you're a Calvinist which usually refers to the free will argument. I couldn't care less about your denomination.

Calvin also supported republics. Don't you support them?

Mastermind wrote: And american law allows any abortion without restrictions if I'm not mistaken.

Congress recently banned partial-birth abortions.

Mastermind wrote: Now you're telling me when I post. Fantastic.

August noticed your lack of response in the death penalty thread too. Moving on...

sandy_mcd wrote: Are you saying we shouldn't ever do anything which is unlawful ? I don't think it is that simple.

As a general rule that is what I'm saying... So long as those laws are not contradictory to our calling as Christians. Since when is feeding a homeless person illegal anyways?

Felgar wrote:As a general rule that is what I'm saying... So long as those laws are not contradictory to our calling as Christians. Since when is feeding a homeless person illegal anyways?

I couldn't easily find any on-line ordinances, but here is part of an ABC news story (here it is in public but not all of them have this restriction):
Homeless advocates protest arrests; vow to continue feedings
an ABC Action News report 4/19/04 - updated 5:42 p.m. TAMPA -
The activist network known as 'Food Not Bombs' is fighting Tampa's policy that prohibits the sharing of food for free in public areas. Sunday, three members of the group were arrested in Massey Park for giving out food to the homeless.

I personally wouldn't do most of the things I listed; but others obviously feel differently.
sandy

sandy_mcd wrote: I couldn't easily find any on-line ordinances, but here is part of an ABC news story (here it is in public but not all of them have this restriction):
Homeless advocates protest arrests; vow to continue feedings
an ABC Action News report 4/19/04 - updated 5:42 p.m. TAMPA -
The activist network known as 'Food Not Bombs' is fighting Tampa's policy that prohibits the sharing of food for free in public areas. Sunday, three members of the group were arrested in Massey Park for giving out food to the homeless.
sandy

You should post the whole story.

sandy_mcd wrote:The activist network known as 'Food Not Bombs' is fighting Tampa's policy that prohibits the sharing of food for free in public areas. Sunday, three members of the group were arrested in Massey Park for giving out food to the homeless.

Well that is a ridiculous law. Most places don't have it, I believe.

But actually, I suppose you could work in a soup kitchen which would be serving the poor within the confines of the law.

The law was probably based off of concerns for people poisoning each other and taking advantage of those hungry for the poisoned food. Yeah, like Felgar said, I can't imagine a soup kitchen would be illegal. Maybe you should then just go and take the homeless person into a local restaraunt and pay for their meal there. That's not illegal. I mean, if someone where handing out muffins to people on the street for no apparent reason, I think I'd question why they were doing that! It makes you wonder what prompted the law to come into existence!

kateliz wrote: Maybe you should then just go and take the homeless person into a local restaraunt and pay for their meal there.

There's a reason why they usually ask for just money...

Yeah, so they can head straight to the liquor store. My dad was a homeless alcoholic for at least one year. He said that most guys on the street do that exact thing. Which is why you don't give them money, you give them what they should be buying with that money. I once gave a sincere looking guy a bag of home-made chocolate chip cookies that I had on me. He was very touched and softly thanked me. That may have made his week, and encouraged him.

A lot of them are mentally ill who refuse their medications, my dad told me as well. He was one of them while he was out there. That's a very hard spot to pick yourself up and out of. Thankfully he had the whereabouts to remember he had kids, miss them, and admit himself to a hospital. He ended up a few years later in a residential home for the mentally ill, and told me that a lot of the people there had been homeless alcoholics too. It's really a sad thing.

I went up to this other homeless guy I saw in the grocery parking lot. It was odd he was there because you never see any homeless people where I live. I went up to him out of a desire to help in some way, not knowing how. (Sorry, I just want to mention this one thing: he thought I was soliciting him! He was confused because he obviously thought I didn't look the part, and that helped me assure him I wasn't.) He said he didn't need any help with anything after I asked in a way I hoped wasn't offensive, and he understood that I was referring to him being homeless. He then told me, (he was waiting for the bus,) that he had just taken a shower and how it felt good. Said that it's good to take a shower at least every other day. Tugged at my heart, that did!

I did mention something about trusting God for needs. Not sure how I said it, but I tried to fit it into the conversation. I'm pretty sure I was talking about myself and my low-paying job. He got pretty uncomfortable with that and didn't say anything in response. Then his bus came, and I went back to my car and drove off speaking to God about him. I hope I did him some good, but if I did I couldn't tell. If I had been thinking I would have asked him if he had any kids, or family in general.

And if he hadn't left so soon I would've told him something about my dad. He looked a lot like him, which he astutely noticed from how I looked at him. Oh, and he also shared with me how he got the jacket he was wearing by helping someone with some labor. It obviously meant a lot to him, as it did to my dad when I bought him jeans, socks, underwear, shoes and a big, thick winter coat. These guys' hearts don't get touched with money- you got to give them something that really reaches them. Take them without shame into a restaraunt and treat them as someone worthwhile! Bring them to a Target and help them pick out some necessities.

My dad said that in Minneapolis, which is where he was when he was homeless, there's no shortage of places to get free meals, cots to sleep on and donated clothes. That's not always the case, obviously. But if you give these guys something that can touch their hearts and give them hope, then you've really done something good for them.

Sorry, I know I got a little off-topic! Just wanted to share!

kateliz wrote:Yeah, so they can head straight to the liquor store.

Or to score drugs. A lot of them sell their bodies or commit crimes to finance their alcohol and/or drug problem.

Felgar wrote:Well that is a ridiculous law. Most places don't have it, I believe.
But actually, I suppose you could work in a soup kitchen which would be serving the poor within the confines of the law.

Such laws seem to be primarily aimed at institutions feeding more than one person, whether churches in residential areas or downtown missions, as the neighbors object to the fact or idea of litter, urination/defecation, drugs, and crime.
I was just trying to show that while many areas are black-and-white, most people will occasionally have a conflict over following God or Caesar. It is normal for reasonable people to disagree over issues. Some people though seem to see everything as black-and-white (and their feelings are of course always right) and so they can only criticize those who disagree with them.

sandy

kateliz wrote:I went up to this other homeless guy I saw in the grocery parking lot.

That's a wonderful story. I am sure being treated as a human being was important to him.

sandy