Evidence for God from Science

jenna wrote:The question you should be asking is how do we show our love for God? By keeping His commandments or simply saying "I'm saved, so it doesn't matter whether I keep the commandments or not, I'm saved anyway."

So Jenna and Oscarsiziba, if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that God's love is conditional upon one keeping the law in order to prove they love God. If one does not keep all the law, then God does not love you or you could say 'loves you less' than another who keeps the law.

Is this correct?
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B. W. wrote:

jenna wrote:The question you should be asking is how do we show our love for God? By keeping His commandments or simply saying "I'm saved, so it doesn't matter whether I keep the commandments or not, I'm saved anyway."

So Jenna and Oscarsiziba, if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that God's love is conditional upon one keeping the law in order to prove they love God. If one does not keep all the law, then God does not love you or you could say 'loves you less' than another who keeps the law.

Is this correct?
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No, that is not what I am saying here. God's love is never conditional. We show our love for God by obeying His commandments. While His love is unconditional, does this mean we will go unpunished for breaking His commandments? Does a loving human father let his child do whatever he wants with no consequences for his actions? Or, if that child is punished for disobedience, does this make the father's love conditional?

jenna wrote:

B. W. wrote:

jenna wrote:The question you should be asking is how do we show our love for God? By keeping His commandments or simply saying "I'm saved, so it doesn't matter whether I keep the commandments or not, I'm saved anyway."

So Jenna and Oscarsiziba, if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that God's love is conditional upon one keeping the law in order to prove they love God. If one does not keep all the law, then God does not love you or you could say 'loves you less' than another who keeps the law.

Is this correct?

No, that is not what I am saying here. God's love is never conditional. We show our love for God by obeying His commandments. While His love is unconditional, does this mean we will go unpunished for breaking His commandments? Does a loving human father let his child do whatever he wants with no consequences for his actions? Or, if that child is punished for disobedience, does this make the father's love conditional?

If one is to show how much they love by keeping the commandments, then, how do you know if one really loves God or just loves keeping the commandments instead?

If this is the case then one upmanship is the result proving love a sham as well as works based. You'll end up having people declaring how holy and better they are than all others by how much law they keep to prove they really love God. Ancient Israel's Shepherds fell into to this trap and lead the people astray with this kind of thinking.

It appears that you maybe 'are' sliding into that same trap.

Orthodox Christianity does not teach antinomianism. Any arguments used to suggest this to support a position for OT law keeping is not built upon a real understanding of true biblical Christian doctrine but rather a sure sign one is involved in a cult like system.

You show your love to God by loving God.

2 John 1:5-7, “And now I ask you, dear lady--not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning--that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.” ESV

John 15:10-12, “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” ESV

Romans 13:8-10, “Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” ESV

1 John 4:7-12 , “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.” ESV

Last question:

Do you show your love to your spouse by demonstrating blind obedience to them or by building a trusting relationship founded on knowing each other personally? Which of these two produces true love?

John 17:3, 26, "And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent… 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them."ESV
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B. W. wrote:

jenna wrote:

B. W. wrote:

jenna wrote:The question you should be asking is how do we show our love for God? By keeping His commandments or simply saying "I'm saved, so it doesn't matter whether I keep the commandments or not, I'm saved anyway."

So Jenna and Oscarsiziba, if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that God's love is conditional upon one keeping the law in order to prove they love God. If one does not keep all the law, then God does not love you or you could say 'loves you less' than another who keeps the law.

Is this correct?

No, that is not what I am saying here. God's love is never conditional. We show our love for God by obeying His commandments. While His love is unconditional, does this mean we will go unpunished for breaking His commandments? Does a loving human father let his child do whatever he wants with no consequences for his actions? Or, if that child is punished for disobedience, does this make the father's love conditional?

If one is to show how much they love by keeping the commandments, then, how do you know if one really loves God or just loves keeping the commandments instead?

If this is the case then one upmanship is the result proving love a sham as well as works based. You'll end up having people declaring how holy and better they are than all others by how much law they keep to prove they really love God. Ancient Israel's Shepherds fell into to this trap and lead the people astray with this kind of thinking.

It appears that you maybe 'are' sliding into that same trap.

Orthodox Christianity does not teach antinomianism. Any arguments used to suggest this to support a position for OT law keeping is not built upon a real understanding of true biblical Christian doctrine but rather a sure sign one is involved in a cult like system.

You show your love to God by loving God.

2 John 1:5-7, “And now I ask you, dear lady--not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning--that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.” ESV

John 15:10-12, “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” ESV

Romans 13:8-10, “Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” ESV

1 John 4:7-12 , “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.” ESV

Last question:

Do you show your love to your spouse by demonstrating blind obedience to them or by building a trusting relationship founded on knowing each other personally? Which of these two produces true love?

John 17:3, 26, "And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent… 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them."ESV
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Who cares what people think, it is what God knows what is in your Heart when you do or don't keep the commandments. People can be bad, even if your heart is pure someone somewhere will have something bad to say about your keeping of the commandments. Show you Love to god by keeping his commandments, it also a form of worship.

adeepati wrote:which is the true religion. I am a SDA(Seventh Day Adventist), counted in the protestant group. we worship on Sabbath or Saturday, because the 4 command ment states that we should worship on sabbath. which is the true religion, mine or other christain religions.

I suggest that you read what the Church's early Fathers wrote. Saints Justin Martyr, Clement of Rome, Vincent of Lehrin, Cyprian of Carthage, and others. For me, the members of each denomination practice a different religion. Those members seem to use "Christianity" as a general, umbrella-like term to talk about thousands of denominations, including the "nondenominational denomination." I'm winking because I'm being lighthearted, but to me "nondenominational Christian" is an oxymoron like the phrase "plastic silverware."

Bill,
Only a suggestion, but when addressing a poster, perhaps first you should see if the poster is even active on the forum any longer. Since dates are posted, you would observe that this thread has been dead for exactly three years, and the post was from nearly six years ago. the poster had a total of three posts on the forum and hasn't been active here since 2005.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ressurecting an old thread, but in this case you are addressing a poster that is NOT active here, nor has been for a long time. Do you seriously expect a response?

adeepati wrote:which is the true religion. I am a SDA(Seventh Day Adventist), counted in the protestant group. we worship on Sabbath or Saturday, because the 4 command ment states that we should worship on sabbath. which is the true religion, mine or other christain religions.

This is a great question and many churchs would raise there hand and say they are the only one. I find that attitude to be offensive personally, the very idea that God would only come to one group of people is very arragant. God loves all his children and speaks to all who will hear.

I was resently told I might be better off at a Baptist Church when I had a talk with my Pastor conserning communion. I was talking to him about the blesing we recieve through takeing the wine and bread. He stopped me and said "We are to know that this is the real blood and body of Christ". He further went on to say it turns into blood and body when you take it. I said to him that Jesus said to do it in rememberance, which suggests symbolizm to me. I believe we get a blessing but not blood for real, it just does not say that. He then tells me I can't take communion and my membership is in question. I will tell you it isn't, I am looking for something that is real. This is not the 1800s when a person had to just mindlessly agree, that is why God gave us these awesome minds so we can use them. I really hope I can find what I'm looking for because I will belong to no church that doesn't allow me to take from the Bible what I see.

I've attended a few Seventh day Adventist churches and I did not really see a problem but something I noticed that was unusual to me was how they preach while I'm more used to a more of a preacher type preacher they preach by telling a story and the story makes the point,it kinda reminded me of the parables Jesus taught.But overall I thought they were good messages for a Christian I'm just not used to going to church on Saturday but I don't see a problem with having church on Saturday I don't believe Saturday is the Sabbath but it does not mean you can't have church on Saturday.

Hey.......,
Nevermimd.

jlay wrote:Hey.......,
Nevermimd.

Oh no! My wife tries to do that too. She starts to say something, stops, and says "never mind".

Now you must tell us.

Look at my previous post and the date.

jlay wrote:Look at my previous post and the date.

No matter what religion you our affiliated through, if its misleading or full of truthful reasoning, Jesus came here to cover all imperfect mans defilements against the defining definition of everlasting perfectness. God surrounds you, you are made from his dynamic life force, he knows the exact count of every single hair that grows out from the extremities of a persons body. He not only explaines being the maker of the universe and the unlimited number of stars, but he also has them all uniquely named and numbered. God himself has the ability to understand heart conditions, meaning he knows if you are ultimately desire pure things or desire the wicked thing involving the world we live in surrounding the traps Satan has provided. From the love of riches, pleasures to men and woman being lovers of themselves the test truly comes down to you. Jesus came to give you a chance, so prosper in the knowledge of his sacrifice and you reconstruct the heart you contain based on the love he has shown you.