Evidence for God from Science

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13).

ah; so some future tribulation, some mass event, in some undefined future, then, right?

This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth.

so, you seek Christ's physical return, yet you also state that you are the Body of Christ?

This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

so then, martyrs are condemned, the "tribulation" is some future, worldwide, calamitous event, and the Kingdom is not, in fact, very near you, as Christ and God both plainly state? ty

See, you can begin to understand if you simply put your mind to it!

sure, and are willing to accept Mansions in the Sky, instead of Nests (in the Air), and Rapture instead of Word, and belief in a Snake on a Pole, Nehushtan ("Christ, and Him crucified," is i believe the current most pop phraseology) over service to a Risen Lord, and are willing to put off the kingdom until tomorrow, or yesterday, or any TimePlace but HereNow, and, and, and, and, and, which are all necessary to maintain the illusion that God is out to get you, RickD, and continue to ignore the implications of "Who told you that you were naked?" as well as It's many Witnesses, 15If anyone attacks you, it is not from Me; 1Do not judge others, and you will not be judged, etcetc.


11Look, all you who kindle a fire, who encircle yourselves with firebrands <who are these people, RickD?>; walk in the light of your fire and in the firebrands you have lit! This is what you'll get from My hand: you will lie down in a place of torment.

Where is the fire, RickD?
Won't you try to assure me that the fire is with satan, in hell, someday, almost surely probably?
And that i better fear it?
God is the All~Consuming Fire, bro.

i suggest you fear God, Who plainly states that you are going to reap what you sow,
so that being true, it would not surprise me even a little bit to see millions, billions of people
get their Mansions in the Sky, where no wind blows, and they are all gritting their teeth.

You use the numbers 15 and 11 (I) -- what are the numbers referring to.

crochet1949 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13).

ah; so some future tribulation, some mass event, in some undefined future, then, right?

This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth.

so, you seek Christ's physical return, yet you also state that you are the Body of Christ?

This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

so then, martyrs are condemned, the "tribulation" is some future, worldwide, calamitous event, and the Kingdom is not, in fact, very near you, as Christ and God both plainly state? ty

See, you can begin to understand if you simply put your mind to it!

sure, and are willing to accept Mansions in the Sky, instead of Nests (in the Air), and Rapture instead of Word, and belief in a Snake on a Pole, Nehushtan ("Christ, and Him crucified," is i believe the current most pop phraseology) over service to a Risen Lord, and are willing to put off the kingdom until tomorrow, or yesterday, or any TimePlace but HereNow, and, and, and, and, and, which are all necessary to maintain the illusion that God is out to get you, RickD, and continue to ignore the implications of "Who told you that you were naked?" as well as It's many Witnesses, 15If anyone attacks you, it is not from Me; 1Do not judge others, and you will not be judged, etcetc.


11Look, all you who kindle a fire, who encircle yourselves with firebrands <who are these people, RickD?>; walk in the light of your fire and in the firebrands you have lit! This is what you'll get from My hand: you will lie down in a place of torment.

Where is the fire, RickD?
Won't you try to assure me that the fire is with satan, in hell, someday, almost surely probably?
And that i better fear it?
God is the All~Consuming Fire, bro.

i suggest you fear God, Who plainly states that you are going to reap what you sow,
so that being true, it would not surprise me even a little bit to see millions, billions of people
get their Mansions in the Sky, where no wind blows, and they are all gritting their teeth.

You use the numbers 15 and 11 (I) -- what are the numbers referring to.

ah, verse numbers. even though you can just highlight any text now, and right click, and one of your choices should be "Search." very powerful tool. if your browser does not have it, you might contemplate upgrading, to chrome or whatever. peace

Thank you for the information.

crochet1949 wrote:Thank you for the information.

And what version of the Bible are you using?

bbyrd009 wrote:

Nicki wrote:...I just knew that I was saved as long as I wanted to be, and I did want to be...

um, with all due respect how is this position any different from an Apostate's? ty

We Christians want to be saved, do we not? It's our wanting to be saved and our acceptance of God's salvation which brings that about. I meant that I wasn't worried I'd backslide on some whim and lose my salvation; I was pretty sure I'd need a lot of convincing to turn away from Christ. Since it's a matter of faith and not absolute proof, everyone has to make their own decision about God.

God // the Holy Spirit convicts a person Of their sin and we respond by either accepting or rejecting God's gift Of salvation. Upon our salvation, we have an inner peace which tells us that, yes, we have become a child of God.

Nicki wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Nicki wrote:...I just knew that I was saved as long as I wanted to be, and I did want to be...

um, with all due respect how is this position any different from an Apostate's? ty

We Christians want to be saved, do we not? It's our wanting to be saved and our acceptance of God's salvation which brings that about.

ok, i don't want you to take what i'm about to say wrong, ok, because you seem very good~hearted to me. But Hitler wanted to be saved, too, and it was his wanting to be saved, and his acceptance of God's salvation, which brought that about.

my meaning there is that you are not ever going to find someone who cannot justify their path, some kind of way. And while you seem to be on a good trajectory, i am an idiot, and if i think something looks good, it is time to pause and reflect, lol. My meaning is that there is a counterfeit going on, and you have surely come to your current beliefs the same way most people do, the same way i did, the religious way. And there's nothing wrong with that, per se, but i would just invite you to keep searching, even after you are sure you have found, keep an open mind, and be willing to challenge your premises, ok, your deepest, most secure beliefs. Especially if you believe that you are going to be Raptured.

i'm not asking you to change your mind there, right now, ok, but i am suggesting you keep looking, and keep asking God to lead you to truth. Simply because it is really easy to find yourself in a group of well-meaning people, and adopt their beliefs--which are not faith; faith and beliefs are different, although they are often conflated, by a certain crowd--and i'm not even saying that you shouldn't be among those people, right now, learning whatever it is you are learning--you are there, after all, because that is where you were led, most likely, at least if you are an adult--but i am saying that it can be easy to disregard or ignore truth, sometimes, when the choice is to either accept some new truth you have realized, and disagree with your peers, or go along to get along, and keep having friends. it is easy to turn a blind eye, and stay "happy," and let me tell you, this is a choice that you are going to be presented with all your life, i guess. over and over.

So, i hope i haven't upset you any. people have all kinds of crazy ideas, and you don't have to adopt any ideas that don't seem exactly right to you, ok, i'm just suggesting that you put everything to your personal smell test, and be ruthless there, for your own sake.

i'm curious what your definition of "tares" is, right now? What is the concept of "tares" that you and your peers currently have? ty

crochet1949 wrote:God // the Holy Spirit convicts a person Of their sin and we respond by either accepting or rejecting God's gift Of salvation. Upon our salvation, we have an inner peace which tells us that, yes, we have become a child of God.

ah. when were you saved? who told you that you were already saved, crochet? not saying that you aren't, understand. but i will just go ahead and suggest that this is a dangerous, prideful position, ok? and imo God did not give you this, which i don't mean that you are anywhere other than where you are supposed to be, right now, don't get me wrong, ladies, but what i am saying is that i see that you have accepted a model wherein you are "saved," which has to mean that there are some other people--prolly most people--who are "lost," right?

Who told you that you were saved? Did you, at any time, give the person who told you that any money? I know this is a harsh question, alright. And i am not trying to put this person down, in any way. After all, they likely got you to where you are, right now, and you both seem very good~hearted to me. But when you go look for the verse that says you are already saved, guided by the Spirit, only, and not some other person--including me--go see what you will see. bring this verse here to me, and let's look at it.

because, let's admit, let's be honest--or i will be honest, anyway--i went to church because i was afraid of hell, truth be told, because i wanted to go to the good place, and not the bad place, and whaddya know, i found some people who seemed, well, who were, very well-meaning, and helpful, and i thank God for them to this day, they got me where i am, ok, but they told me that i was already saved, too, after i said some things, and did some other things, some rituals, and then Spoke some other things, which apparently were "required" for salvation--they were Laws, iow, ladies--and i have since discovered that that is all those were, is just some more laws to abide by, ok.

and you know what? i am not even meaning to be knocking those laws, or any other laws, for that matter; laws serve a purpose. We are called to fulfill the law, told to obey just laws...even while the laws will not save us.

Now, y'all seem to prolly have more Grace than i do, prolly i should be listening to you there, rather than talking so much, but i can tell you, bring those verses here, and let's see what we will see. let's let the Bible talk.

bbyrd009 wrote:

Nicki wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Nicki wrote:...I just knew that I was saved as long as I wanted to be, and I did want to be...

um, with all due respect how is this position any different from an Apostate's? ty

We Christians want to be saved, do we not? It's our wanting to be saved and our acceptance of God's salvation which brings that about.

ok, i don't want you to take what i'm about to say wrong, ok, because you seem very good~hearted to me. But Hitler wanted to be saved, too, and it was his wanting to be saved, and his acceptance of God's salvation, which brought that about.

my meaning there is that you are not ever going to find someone who cannot justify their path, some kind of way. And while you seem to be on a good trajectory, i am an idiot, and if i think something looks good, it is time to pause and reflect, lol. My meaning is that there is a counterfeit going on, and you have surely come to your current beliefs the same way most people do, the same way i did, the religious way. And there's nothing wrong with that, per se, but i would just invite you to keep searching, even after you are sure you have found, keep an open mind, and be willing to challenge your premises, ok, your deepest, most secure beliefs. Especially if you believe that you are going to be Raptured.

i'm not asking you to change your mind there, right now, ok, but i am suggesting you keep looking, and keep asking God to lead you to truth. Simply because it is really easy to find yourself in a group of well-meaning people, and adopt their beliefs--which are not faith; faith and beliefs are different, although they are often conflated, by a certain crowd--and i'm not even saying that you shouldn't be among those people, right now, learning whatever it is you are learning--you are there, after all, because that is where you were led, most likely, at least if you are an adult--but i am saying that it can be easy to disregard or ignore truth, sometimes, when the choice is to either accept some new truth you have realized, and disagree with your peers, or go along to get along, and keep having friends. it is easy to turn a blind eye, and stay "happy," and let me tell you, this is a choice that you are going to be presented with all your life, i guess. over and over.

So, i hope i haven't upset you any. people have all kinds of crazy ideas, and you don't have to adopt any ideas that don't seem exactly right to you, ok, i'm just suggesting that you put everything to your personal smell test, and be ruthless there, for your own sake.

i'm curious what your definition of "tares" is, right now? What is the concept of "tares" that you and your peers currently have? ty

OK - so what did I say that you think is wrong? You haven't upset me at all - I'm just wondering. You've mentioned somewhere else not believing in the Rapture (and maybe not in Christ's second coming?) The Bible doesn't have the word 'Rapture' but it does say in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 that the Lord will come down from heaven, the dead in Christ will rise first and then the living believers will be caught up to meet him in the air. I don't try to figure out the specifics of this - timing and so on - but it seems there will be a very interesting resurrection and 'catching-up' event at some point in the future.

'Tares' - now, I had to look that one up because I've never been a big KJV/NKJV reader - in modern English it's 'weeds'. It seems to me the weeds are representative of non-Christians who will live alongside Christians until the end times - or perhaps they could be people who are attending churches but not really believers.

Tares are not weeds, like you have been told, ok? i could give you a link, but better to go find your own, guided by the Spirit, there. Tares are "false wheat," and they are psychoactive, they are even sold, right now, today, for their psychoactive effect, people buy them on purpose, for this.

And there is a point to be made there; and there is also a reason that tares have been dumbed down into "weeds," for your consumption, and related to "lost people," for you to consume that, too.

Tares are the counterfeit of "15For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;"

there will be a rapture.

1Th_4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


if you are not in Christ you will not go.

if you are not living right then you are not a in Christ.

Joh_15:2  Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Nicki wrote:OK - so what did I say that you think is wrong? You haven't upset me at all - I'm just wondering. You've mentioned somewhere else not believing in the Rapture (and maybe not in Christ's second coming?) The Bible doesn't have the word 'Rapture' but it does say in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 that the Lord will come down from heaven, the dead in Christ will rise first and then the living believers will be caught up to meet him in the air. I don't try to figure out the specifics of this - timing and so on - but it seems there will be a very interesting resurrection and 'catching-up' event at some point in the future.

gotta agree with you there, something appears to be in the works for the future, someday, and all i can suggest is that Christ didn't do it the way anyone expected the first time, and i bet the Second coming is not going to be any different. Scripture is written in such a way so as to provide everyone with what they want to find, ever notice that? Even atheists get to find what they seek, so to speak.

So, rather than contest what i don't understand there, which might literally come true, for all i know, all i would say is that Rapture is not a new doctrine, read about Ezekiel's "Pillows," and note that prior to 188? whatever, nobody held any rapture doctrine, generally speaking. And that i have, just recently, not a month ago yet, been accused of being drunk at the third hour of the day, i even gotta link, if you like--although it wouldn't really do much for you, prolly--and that i have met Him in the air, and Word is supposed to be very near to you, too, right? Right now. Not in some future, that someone pointed at for you, to, y'know, help you out. in all good faith. just telling you what they believed to be true. nothing wrong with that.

Nicki wrote: 'Tares' - now, I had to look that one up because I've never been a big KJV/NKJV reader - in modern English it's 'weeds'. It seems to me the weeds are representative of non-Christians who will live alongside Christians until the end times - or perhaps they could be people who are attending churches but not really believers.

right. in Modern English, it's weeds, and pastors tell us that tares are people going to the bad place, and that of course since you are already saved (you have made it to the Promised Land, iow, you are no longer Wandering, in the Wilderness, like i am) you don't have to worry about them, or those verses, because after all you are saved, and those passages apply to those "others," right. And tares are just "weeds," they are not "false wheat," or "psychoactive" as i have said, at all, huh.

matter of fact, you went and looked it up, and it's still defined for you as "weeds," huh? We won't get into who bought what dictionaries, and corrupted all the definitions for you, to, y'know, help you to understand, because never mind them, we have a better tool, now, and you can just go dig a little deeper, like 2 more clicks, and search "tares false wheat mind altering," and see what you will see there ok. (since "psychoactive" is kind of a doctor word, not a people word, i guess)

and even then, i get a different, mostly Apostate garbage search in DuckDuckGo, and Google (arg) seems to be better. start with Wiki, where even the first association there is "weeds," just plain ol' weeds. Lol

https://www.google.com/#q=tares+false+w ... d+altering

and notice the one about "let the tares grow with the wheat" i bet that is a good one, i might even have to try to get back to it. if you have a minute, contrast what tares really are, with what the est'd church (and the churchy-type links) are saying, just let them both wash over you, and see the deception, where there is any.

and just trust that 90% of the info you find is crap, even from me, ok. i am just another little kid, arguing where babies come from. i am no different. i do not know what i am talking about, ok. let the Spirit be your guide. and don't trip when the Spirit seems to have led you into a bad place, even, sometimes, so that you will learn what being burned by fire means, i guess. God has a hedge around you, and as long as you are seeking God, you are not going to be allowed to get too hurt. But change can be painful for some, and so i guess sometimes the best way is to let little kids experience putting their hand in a fire, because really how are you going to stop them.

a final word about this Rapture thing; it can be seen that the guy who went to collect Christ's body actually got His "carcass," a different word, when you put down the bible broom, and pick up the shovel. We are the Body of Christ, ok. Yes, Christ is Returning, i can read that, too. But Christ is a spirit, and i doubt that He is going to fulfill anyone's expectations the Second Time, either.

See the lesson inherent in the little joke some people like to play on little kids, telling them

"stay here for the present."

and now recognize that clouds reside in Air, Pneuma, and understand how Word, Dabhar, is directly associated with Air and Pneuma. It is very near to you, right in your "ear," Word is, you should even be able to metaphorically feel the Breath, feel the whisper of the wind. This is why the Book is not the Word, despite what we have been assured of.

jpbg33 wrote:there will be a rapture.

according to some women in Ezekiel, @ "pillows," and according to some other woman, in the late 19th century, yes. We even know here name, but i am not going to bother, it is too easy to search now. see what you will see, i do not condemn you. But recognize that you don't even approve of "women" pastors, right, but now you are defending the doctrine of one, ok. peace

and understand that this has nothing, whatsoever, to do with denigrating "women;" "woman" is a symbol in Scripture, that is all.