Evidence for God from Science

John 6:48-58 KJV
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

If you see Messiah as a mortal man then how do you not see the above as essentially cannibalism? Even the RCC has the doctrine of transubstantiation at communion which implies the same. But all flesh is not the same flesh, (1 Corinthians 15:39-44), there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds, (and therefore doves). There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised an ethereal-spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is an ethereal-spiritual body.

For the body of Messiah it was not possible to see corruption; neither was it possible for death to hold him. As for his blood he clearly tells you that he is the true Vine, (and thus the blood is the "blood of the grape", as in Gen 49:9-12, and "the pure blood of the grape", as in Deut 32:14). One who refuses to see the Spirit of the allegory and parable therefore essentially ends up a proverbial cannibal according to his or her own carnal doctrine. It is amazing that the Master makes these things so remarkably clear by way of the Torah, (for eating or drinking blood is absolutely forbidden, not to mention human flesh and blood), yet those who either reject or pay no heed to the Torah cannot see how the passage above absolutely must be allegorical and supernal in meaning. He even tells his disciples how he means it later in the passage, (which was already quoted previously above, John 6:62-63). What are you going to do if Yeshua returns in a physically resurrected body like most of Christianity believes? He clearly says that the heavens and the earth will pass away but his words will not pass away: therefore you will need to start eating his flesh and drinking his blood when he returns, if you want to have life, that is, according to the passage above, (if you see it the way most do). However I already have the Bread of Life and Wine of my Covenant in the here and now because I know it is supernal in meaning. I am telling you the truth from what is written: it is your religion that is doing the covering up.

bbyrd009 wrote:daqq (a messianic Jew, maybe?)

If you see Messiah as a mortal man then how do you not see the above as essentially cannibalism? Even the RCC has the doctrine of transubstantiation at communion which implies the same. But all flesh is not the same flesh, (1 Corinthians 15:39-44), there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds, (and therefore doves). There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised an ethereal-spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is an ethereal-spiritual body.

For the body of Messiah it was not possible to see corruption; neither was it possible for death to hold him. As for his blood he clearly tells you that he is the true Vine, (and thus the blood is the "blood of the grape", as in Gen 49:9-12, and "the pure blood of the grape", as in Deut 32:14). One who refuses to see the Spirit of the allegory and parable therefore essentially ends up a proverbial cannibal according to his or her own carnal doctrine. It is amazing that the Master makes these things so remarkably clear by way of the Torah, (for eating or drinking blood is absolutely forbidden, not to mention human flesh and blood), yet those who either reject or pay no heed to the Torah cannot see how the passage above absolutely must be allegorical and supernal in meaning. He even tells his disciples how he means it later in the passage, (which was already quoted previously above, John 6:62-63). What are you going to do if Yeshua returns in a physically resurrected body like most of Christianity believes? He clearly says that the heavens and the earth will pass away but his words will not pass away: therefore you will need to start eating his flesh and drinking his blood when he returns, if you want to have life, that is, according to the passage above, (if you see it the way most do). However I already have the Bread of Life and Wine of my Covenant in the here and now because I know it is supernal in meaning. I am telling you the truth from what is written: it is your religion that is doing the covering up.

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:daqq (a messianic Jew, maybe?)

If you see Messiah as a mortal man then how do you not see the above as essentially cannibalism? Even the RCC has the doctrine of transubstantiation at communion which implies the same. But all flesh is not the same flesh, (1 Corinthians 15:39-44), there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds, (and therefore doves). There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised an ethereal-spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is an ethereal-spiritual body.

For the body of Messiah it was not possible to see corruption; neither was it possible for death to hold him. As for his blood he clearly tells you that he is the true Vine, (and thus the blood is the "blood of the grape", as in Gen 49:9-12, and "the pure blood of the grape", as in Deut 32:14). One who refuses to see the Spirit of the allegory and parable therefore essentially ends up a proverbial cannibal according to his or her own carnal doctrine. It is amazing that the Master makes these things so remarkably clear by way of the Torah, (for eating or drinking blood is absolutely forbidden, not to mention human flesh and blood), yet those who either reject or pay no heed to the Torah cannot see how the passage above absolutely must be allegorical and supernal in meaning. He even tells his disciples how he means it later in the passage, (which was already quoted previously above, John 6:62-63). What are you going to do if Yeshua returns in a physically resurrected body like most of Christianity believes? He clearly says that the heavens and the earth will pass away but his words will not pass away: therefore you will need to start eating his flesh and drinking his blood when he returns, if you want to have life, that is, according to the passage above, (if you see it the way most do). However I already have the Bread of Life and Wine of my Covenant in the here and now because I know it is supernal in meaning. I am telling you the truth from what is written: it is your religion that is doing the covering up.

Please post the link from which you got the quote.

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:God // the Holy Spirit convicts a person Of their sin and we respond by either accepting or rejecting God's gift Of salvation. Upon our salvation, we have an inner peace which tells us that, yes, we have become a child of God.

ah. when were you saved? who told you that you were already saved, crochet? not saying that you aren't, understand. but i will just go ahead and suggest that this is a dangerous, prideful position, ok? and imo God did not give you this, which i don't mean that you are anywhere other than where you are supposed to be, right now, don't get me wrong, ladies, but what i am saying is that i see that you have accepted a model wherein you are "saved," which has to mean that there are some other people--prolly most people--who are "lost," right?

Who told you that you were saved? Did you, at any time, give the person who told you that any money? I know this is a harsh question, alright. And i am not trying to put this person down, in any way. After all, they likely got you to where you are, right now, and you both seem very good~hearted to me. But when you go look for the verse that says you are already saved, guided by the Spirit, only, and not some other person--including me--go see what you will see. bring this verse here to me, and let's look at it.

because, let's admit, let's be honest--or i will be honest, anyway--i went to church because i was afraid of hell, truth be told, because i wanted to go to the good place, and not the bad place, and whaddya know, i found some people who seemed, well, who were, very well-meaning, and helpful, and i thank God for them to this day, they got me where i am, ok, but they told me that i was already saved, too, after i said some things, and did some other things, some rituals, and then Spoke some other things, which apparently were "required" for salvation--they were Laws, iow, ladies--and i have since discovered that that is all those were, is just some more laws to abide by, ok.

and you know what? i am not even meaning to be knocking those laws, or any other laws, for that matter; laws serve a purpose. We are called to fulfill the law, told to obey just laws...even while the laws will not save us.

Now, y'all seem to prolly have more Grace than i do, prolly i should be listening to you there, rather than talking so much, but i can tell you, bring those verses here, and let's see what we will see. let's let the Bible talk.

bbyrd009 wrote:

Nicki wrote:OK - so what did I say that you think is wrong? You haven't upset me at all - I'm just wondering. You've mentioned somewhere else not believing in the Rapture (and maybe not in Christ's second coming?) The Bible doesn't have the word 'Rapture' but it does say in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 that the Lord will come down from heaven, the dead in Christ will rise first and then the living believers will be caught up to meet him in the air. I don't try to figure out the specifics of this - timing and so on - but it seems there will be a very interesting resurrection and 'catching-up' event at some point in the future.

gotta agree with you there, something appears to be in the works for the future, someday, and all i can suggest is that Christ didn't do it the way anyone expected the first time, and i bet the Second coming is not going to be any different. Scripture is written in such a way so as to provide everyone with what they want to find, ever notice that? Even atheists get to find what they seek, so to speak.

So, rather than contest what i don't understand there, which might literally come true, for all i know, all i would say is that Rapture is not a new doctrine, read about Ezekiel's "Pillows," and note that prior to 188? whatever, nobody held any rapture doctrine, generally speaking. And that i have, just recently, not a month ago yet, been accused of being drunk at the third hour of the day, i even gotta link, if you like--although it wouldn't really do much for you, prolly--and that i have met Him in the air, and Word is supposed to be very near to you, too, right? Right now. Not in some future, that someone pointed at for you, to, y'know, help you out. in all good faith. just telling you what they believed to be true. nothing wrong with that.

Nicki wrote: 'Tares' - now, I had to look that one up because I've never been a big KJV/NKJV reader - in modern English it's 'weeds'. It seems to me the weeds are representative of non-Christians who will live alongside Christians until the end times - or perhaps they could be people who are attending churches but not really believers.

right. in Modern English, it's weeds, and pastors tell us that tares are people going to the bad place, and that of course since you are already saved (you have made it to the Promised Land, iow, you are no longer Wandering, in the Wilderness, like i am) you don't have to worry about them, or those verses, because after all you are saved, and those passages apply to those "others," right. And tares are just "weeds," they are not "false wheat," or "psychoactive" as i have said, at all, huh.

matter of fact, you went and looked it up, and it's still defined for you as "weeds," huh? We won't get into who bought what dictionaries, and corrupted all the definitions for you, to, y'know, help you to understand, because never mind them, we have a better tool, now, and you can just go dig a little deeper, like 2 more clicks, and search "tares false wheat mind altering," and see what you will see there ok. (since "psychoactive" is kind of a doctor word, not a people word, i guess)

and even then, i get a different, mostly Apostate garbage search in DuckDuckGo, and Google (arg) seems to be better. start with Wiki, where even the first association there is "weeds," just plain ol' weeds. Lol

https://www.google.com/#q=tares+false+w ... d+altering

and notice the one about "let the tares grow with the wheat" i bet that is a good one, i might even have to try to get back to it. if you have a minute, contrast what tares really are, with what the est'd church (and the churchy-type links) are saying, just let them both wash over you, and see the deception, where there is any.

and just trust that 90% of the info you find is crap, even from me, ok. i am just another little kid, arguing where babies come from. i am no different. i do not know what i am talking about, ok. let the Spirit be your guide. and don't trip when the Spirit seems to have led you into a bad place, even, sometimes, so that you will learn what being burned by fire means, i guess. God has a hedge around you, and as long as you are seeking God, you are not going to be allowed to get too hurt. But change can be painful for some, and so i guess sometimes the best way is to let little kids experience putting their hand in a fire, because really how are you going to stop them.

crochet1949 wrote:
Not meaning to sound Rude -- but about the Only thing that I'd agree with you on is your comment "I do not know what I am talking about, ok."

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:
Not meaning to sound Rude -- but about the Only thing that I'd agree with you on is your comment "I do not know what I am talking about, ok."

man, someone bites on that one every, single time, lol.

thank you for your assessment, however.

bbyrd009 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:
Not meaning to sound Rude -- but about the Only thing that I'd agree with you on is your comment "I do not know what I am talking about, ok."

man, someone bites on that one every, single time, lol.

thank you for your assessment, however.

crochet1949 wrote:
Not meaning to sound Rude -- but about the Only thing that I'd agree with you on is your comment "I do not know what I am talking about, ok."

crochet1949 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:God // the Holy Spirit convicts a person Of their sin and we respond by either accepting or rejecting God's gift Of salvation. Upon our salvation, we have an inner peace which tells us that, yes, we have become a child of God.

ah. when were you saved? who told you that you were already saved, crochet? not saying that you aren't, understand. but i will just go ahead and suggest that this is a dangerous, prideful position, ok? and imo God did not give you this, which i don't mean that you are anywhere other than where you are supposed to be, right now, don't get me wrong, ladies, but what i am saying is that i see that you have accepted a model wherein you are "saved," which has to mean that there are some other people--prolly most people--who are "lost," right?

Who told you that you were saved? Did you, at any time, give the person who told you that any money? I know this is a harsh question, alright. And i am not trying to put this person down, in any way. After all, they likely got you to where you are, right now, and you both seem very good~hearted to me. But when you go look for the verse that says you are already saved, guided by the Spirit, only, and not some other person--including me--go see what you will see. bring this verse here to me, and let's look at it.

because, let's admit, let's be honest--or i will be honest, anyway--i went to church because i was afraid of hell, truth be told, because i wanted to go to the good place, and not the bad place, and whaddya know, i found some people who seemed, well, who were, very well-meaning, and helpful, and i thank God for them to this day, they got me where i am, ok, but they told me that i was already saved, too, after i said some things, and did some other things, some rituals, and then Spoke some other things, which apparently were "required" for salvation--they were Laws, iow, ladies--and i have since discovered that that is all those were, is just some more laws to abide by, ok.

and you know what? i am not even meaning to be knocking those laws, or any other laws, for that matter; laws serve a purpose. We are called to fulfill the law, told to obey just laws...even while the laws will not save us.

Now, y'all seem to prolly have more Grace than i do, prolly i should be listening to you there, rather than talking so much, but i can tell you, bring those verses here, and let's see what we will see. let's let the Bible talk.

You've asked me an important question about my personal salvation. I grew up in a Bible teaching church. It was a Big church -- a wonderful pastor who taught Bible. I had what would be called a good 'head' knowledge of salvation. I knew the procedure For accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior. But -- I realized -- due to a set of circumstances -- that I questioned whether I had actually accepted/ believed in my Heart. And there's a Difference between head Knowledge and heart belief. Our pastor challenged the congregation during a church service that 'if a person doubts / questions their salvation -- to get it settled right Now -- walking down an aisle in a church won't save anyone. Right there in your seat -- or Anywhere - for That matter. At school, on the buss, Anywhere a person Is -- they can bow their head -- talk to God. Tell Him that you're not really sure you're saved / going to heaven. But that you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- that He died on the cross for My sin and rose again after 3 days - just like Scripture tells us. That all that's necessary for Me to be saved is to accept God's gift of salvation -- that Jesus Christ's death -- He took my sins upon Himself -- died with them and rose again -- He did that for Me -- as well as every person who's ever lived or Will live. The cross of Jesus Christ -- that's what He died on -- bridges the gap between Me and God. Through Jesus' Christ's shed blood, God sees me just as if I'd never sinned. (justified). I told God all of that -- and thanked Him for His gift of salvation. I accepted His gift. And as a result -- a peacefulness came to me -- in my heart -- no more doubt. That's how a person can know he has eternal life -- because of that inner peace that comes from the Holy Spirit indwelling a person. And, over time -- as a person Does do things they shouldn't -- the Holy Spirit who is dwelling within the person -- tells us that something is Wrong. The convicting role of the Holy Spirit -- we pause and turn away From. Does that mean we'll never do that same thing again? Maybe - maybe Not. It will likely be something Else. Cause Satan is still there to tempt us to do the wrong thing. But we won't loose our salvation because of it.

The Holy Spirit 'told me' I was 'now' a born-again believer. Lots of times a person will be talking with a parent or Sunday School teacher or Christian friend who leads them to salvation. And That person should be shown Scripture that tells them so that it is Not a person who tells them they are saved. And the person asking Jesus to be their Savior should Not be repeating some one elses' prayer. Prayer is us talking to God -- establishing our Own personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. A person Needs to understand what they are doing so that the prayer is their own communication --Not someone else's.

AND there is Nothing prideful or dangerous about this. I really Don't know Where you get that attitude from.

I didn't give Anyone Any Money for this -- Where do you get this from?

Everyone is born a sinner -- no one is born saved. That's what John 3 is talking about. Nicodemus and Jesus Christ.

Whomever 'got you to where you are Now' -- well -- I question Their theology. The impressions they left You with. There is nothing Biblical about paying for salvation and some of the other ideology you have.

Notice I didn't mention baptism or speaking in tongues or laying of hands on me. But a while after I was saved I Did get baptized by immersion because that is the public way of letting people know Outwardly that which has already happened Inwardly. A pastor will probably say -- upon your confession of Jesus Christ as your personal Savior -- I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And then he will dip you under water momentarily and then bring you back up. It's symbolic of dying to self and rising in newness of life in Christ. This action is NOT required for salvation to be Complete.

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:
Not meaning to sound Rude -- but about the Only thing that I'd agree with you on is your comment "I do not know what I am talking about, ok."

but you are not Nicky, crochet; you are an eavesdropper in that conversation, wadr.

thank you for your assessment, however.

crochet1949 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:
Not meaning to sound Rude -- but about the Only thing that I'd agree with you on is your comment "I do not know what I am talking about, ok."

but you are not Nicky, crochet; you are an eavesdropper in that conversation, wadr.

thank you for your assessment, however.

You Do realize that this is an open forum -- anyone can join in or not-- at the bottom of pages it tells who is signed in and how many - if any- visitors are 'listening in'.