Evidence for God from Science

Yes - the head cloth and the actual cloth that covered the entire body - you are going to have to trawl through the threads I am afraid.

neo-x wrote:Thanks bips, interesting links.

Thanksvery much my friend , actually thank you to all the posters here for keeping up with shroud. I have been busy focusing my OCD on my Dad's cancer. His Recent test showed that his PSA doubled fromHis last doctors appointment, but a very kind lady Named Leslie Pointed me to a clinic called the bircher institute where they are using a new method of hyperthermia that has had some fantastic cure rates for prostate cancer patients. this is the place that the Mayo Clinic sends people to which it cant help anymore so that tells you something about their expertise. I was extremely excited after getting off the Phone with the consultant lady, plus its covered by Dad's insurance
When Dad is accepted I will be staying with him for 3 months as he has to go through daily hyperthermia treatments so we will be renting an apartment in los angeles next to the clinic.
This is the first day in a while that I felt very little stress

I will also be seeing a dermatologist next week since my insurance got approved recently .

Thank you Christ for leading dad to that clinic.

Again im sorry folks that I haven't had time to post much on the shroud

There is an October shroud of turin conference in St Louis and I wouldn't be surprised if they present something new on the shroud. I sure wish they would focus more research time on the holographic info on the shroud.

Thank you everyone for all your prayers, I have a very good feeling about this treatment.

Starhunter wrote:

Mastermind wrote:I'm not even sure if it's real, a fabrication or a replica of the original.

Did anyone mention that the wrapping of Christ's body came in two pieces? And that the shroud is one piece?

hey Star Hunter, the head cloth is called the sudarium of Oviedo and is housed in Spain, it has a perfect congruent match when overlaid on the head image of the shroud. Its like this jigsaw puzzle that just comes together.

Here is some information on the research on the sudarium of Oviedo done by the worlds foremost expert on the sudarium Marc Guscin and his team of scientists in Spain.

https://www.shroud.com/guscin.htm

Stu wrote:Interesting interview with Russ Breault on the shroud.
Find the interview here.

Stu, thank you again for the great link. Russ breault never fails to give a great presentation on the shroud and I feel his greatest area of expertise is the historical evidences for the shroud as I learned a few new things from this link.

This thread is becoming saturated with awesome informationa nd great links
Good Job everyone

Here is another new Shroud presentation I found. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBQzYYlVpgc

Here is a good presentation from the unbelievable podcast . They are a Christian organization in England which will host the unbelievable conference in England later this year in association with billa university and reasonable faith.org . Hopefully William lane craig will be there to listen and hopefully he will get up to date on the shroud.

This podcast talks about many people like physicist Brian miller who started out an atheist whose journey towards changing his mind started with the shroud. He is a Christian today
Enjoy
http://www.premierradio.org.uk/listen/o ... C61767D%7D

I'm off to do some contemplative prayer now

Hi guys, got some FRESH new Shroud links. The first one being obviously a good one, a video presentation by Dr. Gary Habermas seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTSuqcdyfuo

And there is another three part presentation that was made I think back in the 1970s or 1980s called In search of the Shroud of Turin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWvNl9mF2bE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WK0rC4t5A

And finally here is another Shroud presentation given by Dr. Richard Kent, love his accent by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WK0rC4t5A

Anyways, see you all later, GB.

DRDS wrote:Hi guys, got some FRESH new Shroud links. The first one being obviously a good one, a video presentation by Dr. Gary Habermas seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTSuqcdyfuo

And there is another three part presentation that was made I think back in the 1970s or 1980s called In search of the Shroud of Turin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWvNl9mF2bE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WK0rC4t5A

And finally here is another Shroud presentation given by Dr. Richard Kent, love his accent by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WK0rC4t5A

Anyways, see you all later, GB.

Bro, the habermas video was off the hook, especially the way he described the 3d encoded info on the dorsal side. It definitely taught me some things I never knew before about the shroud. Ill go through the other links this weekend
God bless

bippy123 wrote:

DRDS wrote:Hi guys, got some FRESH new Shroud links. The first one being obviously a good one, a video presentation by Dr. Gary Habermas seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTSuqcdyfuo

And there is another three part presentation that was made I think back in the 1970s or 1980s called In search of the Shroud of Turin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWvNl9mF2bE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WK0rC4t5A

And finally here is another Shroud presentation given by Dr. Richard Kent, love his accent by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WK0rC4t5A

Anyways, see you all later, GB.

Bro, the habermas video was off the hook, especially the way he described the 3d encoded info on the dorsal side. It definitely taught me some things I never knew before about the shroud. Ill go through the other links this weekend
God bless

Great to see that you got to watch the Habermas video in time. I watched some of it and was going to watch the rest but the user who posted the video decided to take it down for some reason. But if you can remember what all did Habermas have to say about the 3d encoded information on the dorsal side of the cloth? GB.

i did not read all fifty some pages of this thread, so forgive me if it has already been brought up

there is scripture where one reads that 'and they cast lots to divide His garments'

so what comes to mind is what shroud is in debate? It could not have been His garments.

Lonewolf wrote:i did not read all fifty some pages of this thread, so forgive me if it has already been brought up

there is scripture where one reads that 'and they cast lots to divide His garments'

so what comes to mind is what shroud is in debate? It could not have been His garments.

The shroud is what Christ was buried in, not the garments he was wearing during his passion.

Byblos wrote:

Lonewolf wrote:i did not read all fifty some pages of this thread, so forgive me if it has already been brought up

there is scripture where one reads that 'and they cast lots to divide His garments'

so what comes to mind is what shroud is in debate? It could not have been His garments.

The shroud is what Christ was buried in, not the garments he was wearing during his passion.

ok, so what was He (Christ) wearing when He rose from the dead and presented Himself to the disciples?

and if He did leave such a shroud with His image on it, why wouldn't have any of the New testament writers not made any mention of it?
or for that matter, any of the 2nd / 3rd century so-called church fathers and Christian apologists?

Lonewolf wrote: ok, so what was He (Christ) wearing when He rose from the dead and presented Himself to the disciples?

and if He did leave such a shroud with His image on it, why wouldn't have any of the New testament writers not made any mention of it?
or for that matter, any of the 2nd / 3rd century so-called church fathers and Christian apologists?

Wolfie, you are asking good questions. As for what was he wearing immediately post resurrection, He's able to rise from the dead, so questions about him wearing the same hideous, smelly, nasty grave clothes seem irrelevant - I'm sure He acquired some appropriate threads for His Risen appearances.

John Calvin asked similar questions: ""How is it possible that those sacred historians, who carefully related all the miracles that took place at Christ's death, should have omitted to mention one so remarkable as the likeness of the body of our Lord remaining on its wrapping sheet?""

It is interesting that the Shroud and headpiece were not mentioned by the Gospel writers. It MIGHT have been that this was puposeful, so as to protect them from being destroyed. Additionally, this may not have seemed much proof outside of the small core of first Believers, as until it was photographed, the negative image created a startling realistic positive - which would not have been so clearly perceived in the first century. Even fresh after the Crucifixion, what was the Shroud to anyone else, as many people were crucified by the Romans? So it was no proof to reveal and initially was likely hidden away to protect it. The truly miraculous aspects of the Shroud only became known through modern investigation, but it would have been just another burial garment to ancient examiners. And even if it was scrutinized for clues to it's authenticity, the ancients would have no way of proviing the image wasn't painted on and certainly no way to see it's astounding three dimensionality - things that still baffle modern investigators using the latest analytical technology.

I think the reason that the 1st and 2nd generation followers didn't mention it is because for them, relics would NOT have been that important ( they had the first hand teachings of the apostles, direct teachings AND the HS). It may also be that the person that got them wanted to keep them safe from persecution and destruction ( lets not forget that the first generations had to deal with that a LOT and subsequent generations were not that better off).
The Gospels were written to pass on the eyewitness testimonies of the Apostles, not to "catalog" events and items for future generations.

I think the reason that the 1st and 2nd generation followers didn't mention it is because for them, relics would NOT have been that important ( they had the first hand teachings of the apostles, direct teachings AND the HS). It may also be that the person that got them wanted to keep them safe from persecution and destruction ( lets not forget that the first generations had to deal with that a LOT and subsequent generations were not that better off).
The Gospels were written to pass on the eyewitness testimonies of the Apostles, not to "catalog" events and items for future generations.

Paul, I think those are all plausible points. Not to mention that, at some point, the Apostles dispersed and were no longer in constant contact. So, by then, the Shroud's exact location and knowledge of its current possessors/protectors may not have been known, as they may have only been precisely known fairly soon after the Resurrection.