What would have happened had Adam never sinned?

[Kenny]

Bybos
I tell you what Kenny, not only will I say the universe cannot be shown to be finite with reason alone, I will go so far as to state that it is possible the universe (read matter and energy) is etrenal.
Ken
I never made a claim about weather the Universe was eternal or not.

Byblos
Even at that, it could STILL be shown from reason alone the necessity of a first mover. But we've danced around this bull before haven't we. It went nowhere then and I suspect it will go nowhere again. And we also know why.
Ken
I wouldn’t say it went nowhere; even though we can agree to disagree, I learned a lot about how you guys think, and what you believe. Just because we cannot convince each other to change our POV doesn’t mean it was all a waste of time.

Ken

[Kenny]

FL wrote:
There was never a time when nothing existed. Time itself came into existence at the Big Bang. Before the BB, there was no time, no nothin'.*

You mean nothin cept the singularity...er...singular. Right Kenny?

I think you've got me mixed up with someone else.

Ken

[Kenny]

I'm not even sure Kenny's ''singular'' existed. Actually, I'm pretty sure that no thing existed. We need an astronomer here. Or a cosmologist...this is a topic for Dr. No, Queen of Slobovia!

FL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Sorry, Kenny, but your past obtusiveness and refusal to accept the plain definition of ''worldview'' has compromised your credibility in my eyes. Let's wait until someone who knows what they are talking about gives us an opinion on the BB singularity.

Unlike you, I don't BS. I'll admit that I have limited knowledge about this topic.

FL

[RickD]

FL wrote:
There was never a time when nothing existed. Time itself came into existence at the Big Bang. Before the BB, there was no time, no nothin'.*

You mean nothin cept the singularity...er...singular. Right Kenny?

I think you've got me mixed up with someone else.

Ken

No mix up Kenny. You wrote this:

What existed before the Big Bang? The singular that expanded to become the big bang. What existed before that? Science does not claim to know.

[Kenny]

FL wrote:
There was never a time when nothing existed. Time itself came into existence at the Big Bang. Before the BB, there was no time, no nothin'.*

You mean nothin cept the singularity...er...singular. Right Kenny?

I think you've got me mixed up with someone else.

Ken

No mix up Kenny. You wrote this:

What existed before the Big Bang? The singular that expanded to become the big bang. What existed before that? Science does not claim to know.

I never claimed before the big bang no time, no nothing existed. That was someone elses claim

Ken

[RickD]

FL wrote:
There was never a time when nothing existed. Time itself came into existence at the Big Bang. Before the BB, there was no time, no nothin'.*

You mean nothin cept the singularity...er...singular. Right Kenny?

I think you've got me mixed up with someone else.

Ken

No mix up Kenny. You wrote this:

What existed before the Big Bang? The singular that expanded to become the big bang. What existed before that? Science does not claim to know.

I never claimed before the big bang no time, no nothing existed. That was someone elses claim

Ken

Kenny,
It looks like you picked right up with the same confusion you had before. Here's what you said:

Kenny wrote:
The Big Bang was the beginning of the Universe AS WE KNOW IT. Science does not claim there was a time in history when absolutely nothing existed.

Kenny,
You said that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe...

And like I told you, the universe is all space and matter that exists.

So, you did claim that before the Big Bang, no time, no nothing existed.

Stop being ridiculous Kenny.

[Kenny]

RickD

I agree; the Universe is all matter that exists.
My exact word were: "The Big Bang was the beginning of the Universe AS WE KNOW IT. Now why do you supposed I put those 4 words in caps?

K

[1over137]

The singularity is singularity from General Relativity theory. In General Relativity, after the Big Bang, the spacetime was born. General Relativity itself is not enough to describe our universe. Physicists try to combine it with quantum theory. Until we have a theory that combines all 4 forces we do not really know to say more about beginning of the universe.

[Kenny]

I don't think scientists really know; I think they are just giving us the best information avaliable to them at this time. In the future as they get new information; I am sure their claims will change.

Ken

[Kenny]

Sorry, Kenny, but your past obtusiveness and refusal to accept the plain definition of ''worldview'' has compromised your credibility in my eyes. Let's wait until someone who knows what they are talking about gives us an opinion on the BB singularity.

Unlike you, I don't BS. I'll admit that I have limited knowledge about this topic.

FL

The only thing that was accomplished with our previous conversation of "worldview" was.... when pressed, your claims fall apart like a house of cards after which you run away with your tail between your legs. I agree with you it's best you stay away from this conversation and let someone more qualified speak; so.... go away young man; Grown folks talkin' here!

Ken

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

The only thing that was accomplished with our previous conversation of "worldview" was.... when pressed, your claims fall apart like a house of cards after which you run away with your tail between your legs. I agree with you it's best you stay away from this conversation and let someone more qualified speak; so.... go away young man; Grown folks talkin' here!Ken

You disappoint me, Kenny. I actually thought that you had made progress in growing out of your immature mindset.

It seems that nothing has changed.

FL

[outlaw]

post deleted by moderator.

Outlaw,
This Questions for Christians forum is for people to ask questions, and get answers BY CHRISTIANS. It's not a forum for you to push your anti God agenda. Please follow the board guidelines, and please respect the purposes of the forums we have here.

[PaulSacramento]

I don't think scientists really know; I think they are just giving us the best information avaliable to them at this time. In the future as they get new information; I am sure their claims will change.

Ken

Since science is about observation and rational deduction from those observations, science can only ever give its best "educated conclusion" withing those circumstances and YES, no scientific "fact" is ever written in stone in the sense that science is ALWAYS open to evidence that shows it's conclusions may be wrong.
It is always important to distinguish between a scientific question and a philosophic one.

Too many times problems are propagated because people either don't realize or know the difference or DON'T want to accept there is a difference.

[PaulSacramento]

The Big Bang was the beginning of the EXPANSION of the KNOWN universe ( not to nit pick).