Evidence for God from Science

Byblos wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:You seem surprised.

Very. I'm sure you have your reasons why you're saying that but it just sounds like something a deist would say.

I don't believe that God creates us individually like he did with Adam for example.
That He sustains creation, yes of course.
We are born of our mother and fathers, we are not directly created By God.
In other words I do NOT believe that God intervenes in the "creative" process that happens in the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Unless you're saying God stopped forming people in the womb at some point after Jeremiah.

Maybe evolution took over after the Old Testament.

RickD wrote:Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Unless you're saying God stopped forming people in the womb at some point after Jeremiah.

Maybe evolution took over after the Old Testament.

Don't see "created you" in there...
Are you suggesting that every human in existence right now was an act of divine creation by God?

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:<a class="rtBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Jeremiah%201.5" data-reference="Jeremiah 1.5" data-version="nasb95" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Jeremiah 1:5</a>
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Unless you're saying God stopped forming people in the womb at some point after Jeremiah.

Maybe evolution took over after the Old Testament.

Don't see "created you" in there...
Are you suggesting that every human in existence right now was an act of divine creation by God?

I'm only trying to show you that I think you're wrong when you said:

In other words I do NOT believe that God intervenes in the "creative" process that happens in the womb.

I think that Jeremiah 1:5 shows that God does indeed intervene in the "creative"(quotes yours) process that happens in the womb.

Don't you think if God forms someone in the womb, that He is involved in the "creative" process in the womb?

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:<a class="rtBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Jeremiah%201.5" data-reference="Jeremiah 1.5" data-version="nasb95" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Jeremiah 1:5</a>
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Unless you're saying God stopped forming people in the womb at some point after Jeremiah.

Maybe evolution took over after the Old Testament.

Don't see "created you" in there...
Are you suggesting that every human in existence right now was an act of divine creation by God?

I'm only trying to show you that I think you're wrong when you said:

In other words I do NOT believe that God intervenes in the "creative" process that happens in the womb.

I think that Jeremiah 1:5 shows that God does indeed intervene in the "creative"(quotes yours) process that happens in the womb.

Don't you think if God forms someone in the womb, that He is involved in the "creative" process in the womb?

I an not sure that the text means what you think it means...
That would imply that any birth defect or such was God's direct doing.

RickD wrote:

Byblos wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:You seem surprised.

Very. I'm sure you have your reasons why you're saying that but it just sounds like something a deist would say.

Or an evolutionist...

I have no issue with evolution whatsoever and yet I would never utter anything like that.

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Unless you're saying God stopped forming people in the womb at some point after Jeremiah.

Maybe evolution took over after the Old Testament.

Don't see "created you" in there...
Are you suggesting that every human in existence right now was an act of divine creation by God?

But you don't believe that either, as an evolutionist, that is.

Byblos wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Unless you're saying God stopped forming people in the womb at some point after Jeremiah.

Maybe evolution took over after the Old Testament.

Don't see "created you" in there...
Are you suggesting that every human in existence right now was an act of divine creation by God?

But you don't believe that either, as an evolutionist, that is.

No, I believe that breathes a living spirit into every human being BUT I don't believe that God creates every living being and that, outside of Christ of course, He has not divinely interfered in any procreational event since Adam and Eve.

Do you believe that God creates every single human life every born/conceived? I mean personally created them in the womb?

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:<a class="rtBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Jeremiah%201.5" data-reference="Jeremiah 1.5" data-version="nasb95" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Jeremiah 1:5</a>
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Unless you're saying God stopped forming people in the womb at some point after Jeremiah.

Maybe evolution took over after the Old Testament.

Don't see "created you" in there...
Are you suggesting that every human in existence right now was an act of divine creation by God?

I'm only trying to show you that I think you're wrong when you said:

In other words I do NOT believe that God intervenes in the "creative" process that happens in the womb.

I think that Jeremiah 1:5 shows that God does indeed intervene in the "creative"(quotes yours) process that happens in the womb.

Don't you think if God forms someone in the womb, that He is involved in the "creative" process in the womb?

I an not sure that the text means what you think it means...
That would imply that any birth defect or such was God's direct doing.

I think it means exactly what it says. That God formed Jeremiah in the womb. Which is an argument against what you said.

And no, I don't think it implies that any birth defect is God's direct doing.

From what you said, it seems like you're agreeing with the deist belief that God doesn't personally interact with His creation. I think that's what Byblos was saying.

So from what you wrote here:

PaulS wrote:
God didn't make you any way at all, He didn't make you, you were born of your mother and father.
God stopped making people a LONG time ago.

You're saying God stopped making people a LONG time ago, in other words, after Jeremiah?

PaulSacramento wrote:He has not divinely interfered in any procreational event since Adam and Eve.

But why make an exception for Adam and Eve, since you're an evolutionist.

Byblos wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:He has not divinely interfered in any procreational event since Adam and Eve.

But why make an exception for Adam and Eve, since you're an evolutionist.

I think you guys are going off a bit.
God not getting directly involved in the conception process is a FAR CRY from stating that He doesn't get involved in His creation at all.
I believe that God created Adam and Eve directly ( and obviously differently) and that the moment that procreation came to be that God no longer DIRECTLY created human beings but that humans beget other humans.
I don't think that the language in Jeremiah states that God created Jeremiah in a divine way in his mothers womb, is that what you are implying?

Now it may be that certain people, like the prophets, that God has preordained for a special task ( like Jeremiah, Isaiah, Elijah, etc), He may have done something more, I really don't know BUT it kind of makes sense.
The thing is that you can NOT state that God created directly ( and divinely of course) every human being and still state that He has no control over birth defects and things of that nature.
How do you reconcile that?

Byblos wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:He has not divinely interfered in any procreational event since Adam and Eve.

But why make an exception for Adam and Eve, since you're an evolutionist.

Because they were different, that I why they were in a garden IN Eden, a paradise on Earth.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Byblos wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:He has not divinely interfered in any procreational event since Adam and Eve.

But why make an exception for Adam and Eve, since you're an evolutionist.

Because they were different, that I why they were in a garden IN Eden, a paradise on Earth.

Paul, if you're an evolutionist then necessarily you believe Adam and Eve are no different biologically than you or me, right?