Evidence for God from Science

edwardmurphy wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.

That's not about religion, it's about our foreign policy.

You seem to have skimmed over what Islam teaches about Jihad and the Majde and I'm not exaggerating about it.Years ago I was studying other religions to better understand them so that I have a better understanding of how to witness to them about Jesus and when I was studying Islam I wrote down questions on a piece of paper and actually called an Islamic mosque and talked to a person on the phone and I asked the questions and he answered me,so I am not just making up things about Islam and they do believe in the Majde and do believe by carrying out Jihad it speeds up the Majde's return who they believe is coming to convert the world to Islam by the sword. It is their religion that teaches them this but this stuff is not really talked about much in the western media and we get a PC version of Islam.

abelcainsbrother wrote:You seem to have skimmed over what Islam teaches about Jihad and the Majde. I'm not exaggerating about it. Years ago I was studying other religions to better understand them so that I have a better understanding of how to witness to them about Jesus.

That's kind of obnoxious.

abelcainsbrother wrote:When I was studying Islam I wrote down questions on a piece of paper and actually called an Islamic mosque and talked to a person on the phone. I asked the questions and he answered me, so I am not just making up things about Islam. They do believe in the Majde and do believe by carrying out Jihad. It speeds up the Majde's return who they believe is coming to convert the world to Islam by the sword. It is their religion that teaches them this but this stuff is not really talked about much in the western media and we get a PC version of Islam.

I had never heard of the Majde or of the Islamic prophecy that he would return and force the world to convert to Islam, so I googled it. After a half hour of searching I learned that Majde is short for Magdalena in Slovenian. I felt like there might be more to it, so I read up a bit on Islamic end-of-days type prophecies. As far as I can tell they're pretty much the same as the Christian end-of-days type prophecies. Converting the world to Islam by the sword never came up. Curious, no...?

abelcainsbrother wrote:Melanie has changed my mind about the Syrian refugees.I did come across like I hate all muslims when it is Sharia Law that I despise.I also came across like I have no compassion for what these refugess are going through,when I do.It is Sharia Law that I'm against and the silent and violent Jihad coming to the west.I know that both moderate and radical muslims feel like there are things they must do to speed up the Majde's return,they believe it speeds up his return and for him to not only come but to convert the world to Islam and with Jesus Christ with him who they say denies he is the son of God.Yes people in other religions can be terrorists but muslims attack any other religion whether it be Christians, Buddhists,Hindu's,Jews,atheists,etc unlike the other religions.And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.

Abel that's great to hear that you have compassion for the refugees. It's hard not too considering what they have been through
I have a bit to say, can you believe it with regards to moderate Muslims trying to convert the world to Islam.
Yes, there is a faction of Muslims that are dangerous and who hate us. When you dehumanise people and hold hatred towards a race of people based purely on their ethnicity and/or religion then their is a very real dangerous potential for society.
I am no expert but Abel I have spent quite a bit of time trying too as best I can understand Islam and the rise of terrorists groups like Islamic State. The political, historical, cultural and religious affairs that has given rise to these groups. I have always tried to gather my information from neutral sources then formed my opinion. I stay clear of any source of information that is tainted with opinion that then presents unbalanced information. I want the details and the facts so that I can form an unbiased, hopefully informed opinion.
My opinion differs from yours.
And yes I have spoken to Muslims regarding this.
I have no reason to side with Muslims. I believe it is a false religion and their are many aspects of their faith I disagree with. I believe very strongly in womens rights and I personally am not too fond of the burka. As a woman it offends me. Very few Muslim woman actually do wear it though.
But I believe in freedom of religion. In freedom of choice even if that choice is very foreign or not understood by me.
I do not believe that Muslims are trying to silently take over the west.
I do believe that some Muslims have a very fanatical belief system in which they see us as the enemy. They do not represent the entirety of the Muslim population.
Yes some of these beliefs are being pushed by Islamic leaders but it still is not representation of the people as a whole.
Just like your belief that Muslims are trying to take over the west is not a representation of my beliefs. This idea has been pushed by leaders of the Christian Faith but it does not represent my
Faith.
Islam is no different to any other religion in that there are many different ideologies held by different people. Interpretation of ancient texts involves such subjective branches of thought.

I was on youtube watching a video made about Israel warning both Russia and the US and we were discussing prophecy and I brought up the mahde and look at how a muslim replies.
persia datis 1 day ago
+Rikko5500 yes we belive jesus will return to save the world with imam mahdi our 12th imam .but now all media try to show u that he is anti christ . but jesus and he will work togeder
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melanie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:Melanie has changed my mind about the Syrian refugees.I did come across like I hate all muslims when it is Sharia Law that I despise.I also came across like I have no compassion for what these refugess are going through,when I do.It is Sharia Law that I'm against and the silent and violent Jihad coming to the west.I know that both moderate and radical muslims feel like there are things they must do to speed up the Majde's return,they believe it speeds up his return and for him to not only come but to convert the world to Islam and with Jesus Christ with him who they say denies he is the son of God.Yes people in other religions can be terrorists but muslims attack any other religion whether it be Christians, Buddhists,Hindu's,Jews,atheists,etc unlike the other religions.And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.

Abel that's great to hear that you have compassion for the refugees. It's hard not too considering what they have been through
I have a bit to say, can you believe it with regards to moderate Muslims trying to convert the world to Islam.
Yes, there is a faction of Muslims that are dangerous and who hate us. When you dehumanise people and hold hatred towards a race of people based purely on their ethnicity and/or religion then their is a very real dangerous potential for society.
I am no expert but Abel I have spent quite a bit of time trying too as best I can understand Islam and the rise of terrorists groups like Islamic State. The political, historical, cultural and religious affairs that has given rise to these groups. I have always tried to gather my information from neutral sources then formed my opinion. I stay clear of any source of information that is tainted with opinion that then presents unbalanced information. I want the details and the facts so that I can form an unbiased, hopefully informed opinion.
My opinion differs from yours.
And yes I have spoken to Muslims regarding this.
I have no reason to side with Muslims. I believe it is a false religion and their are many aspects of their faith I disagree with. I believe very strongly in womens rights and I personally am not too fond of the burka. As a woman it offends me. Very few Muslim woman actually do wear it though.
But I believe in freedom of religion. In freedom of choice even if that choice is very foreign or not understood by me.
I do not believe that Muslims are trying to silently take over the west.
I do believe that some Muslims have a very fanatical belief system in which they see us as the enemy. They do not represent the entirety of the Muslim population.
Yes some of these beliefs are being pushed by Islamic leaders but it still is not representation of the people as a whole.
Just like your belief that Muslims are trying to take over the west is not a representation of my beliefs. This idea has been pushed by leaders of the Christian Faith but it does not represent my
Faith.
Islam is no different to any other religion in that there are many different ideologies held by different people. Interpretation of ancient texts involves such subjective branches of thought.

Thanks for the response and I was wrong the way I came accross about the refugeees and I agree with your compassion for people and these refugees however we may have to agree to disagree about Islamic Jihad. I was concerned about this before 9/11 and have been concerned about it ever since then and have tried to keep up with it through the years. This is not some new thing to me because of Islamic terrorism.I was prophesying Iraq would be rebuilt when Bill Clinton was still the President and before Bush was even on the radar to become the president.It still has not been fully fulfilled yet but I believe it is going to be based on Isaiah 13.

Sorry, I keep forgetting that you're looking at this as a Biblical prophecy issue. If you think that the Muslims are going to take over the world because it was foretold then I guess I have no response. I don't believe in prophecy, period, and people making informed predictions based on current global realities aren't predicting anything of the kind. Basically, we seem to have completely incompatible ways of seeing the world.

edwardmurphy wrote:Sorry, I keep forgetting that you're looking at this as a Biblical prophecy issue. If you think that the Muslims are going to take over the world because it was foretold then I guess I have no response. I don't believe in prophecy, period, and people making informed predictions based on current global realities aren't predicting anything of the kind. Basically, we seem to have completely incompatible ways of seeing the world.

I understand but muslims still believe jihad speeds up the Mahde's return.

edwardmurphy wrote:...I had never heard of the Majde or of the Islamic prophecy that he would return and force the world to convert to Islam, so I googled it. After a half hour of searching I learned that Majde is short for Magdalena in Slovenian. I felt like there might be more to it, so I read up a bit on Islamic end-of-days type prophecies. As far as I can tell they're pretty much the same as the Christian end-of-days type prophecies. Converting the world to Islam by the sword never came up. Curious, no...?

Guess you cannot read even from wiki - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi concerning the Mahdi ... and too lazy to read from Islamic websites...

Next...

Allah (swt) says in the Qur’aan:

"It is he (Allah) who has sent his Messenger (saw) with guidance and the religion of truth (i.e. Islam), in order for it to be dominant over ALL other religions, even though the Mushrikoon (disbelievers) hate it." (EMQ at-Tawbah, 9:33 & as Saff 61:4-9, 13)

Mushrikun Arabic: (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah)

9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah"

9:30 "Allah curse be on them (Jews & Christians) ... because 9:31 "they worship (also) Christ the son of Mary"

9:32 Allah won't allow Jews & Christians to spread their false believes through preaching

To stop them: by making Islam "pravail over" 9:33 them (through 9:29 & jizyah i.e. protection poll tax how mafia operates)

Muhammad said this:

"Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation) dominate ALL that I saw" (Saheeh Muslim, hadeeth #2889)

"Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children.

When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them.

Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhaajiroun (migrants) and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhaajiroun.

If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fay’ except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers).

If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizyah (tax). If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them…" (Saheeh [Most Authentic] Muslim #1731 & Book 19 #4294 & last Medina political jihadi surah 9:29)
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B. W. wrote:Guess you cannot read even from wiki - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi concerning the Mahdi ... and too lazy to read from Islamic websites...

Lazy? Nope, that's not it. I actually put quite a bit of time and effort into responding to posts here. Even yours, although I'm gradually learning my lesson about that.

The actual issue is that ACB kept talking about the "Majde" so that's what I went looking for. If he'd said "Mahdi" then I'd have found it. Pardon me for not being up on all of the alternative spellings of the names of religious figures whose prophesies I don't care about.

Once ACB clarified the spelling I did read up a bit on him. Basically he's a messianic figure that some (but definitely not all) Muslims believe will come back and lead them into blah, blah, whatever. I never came across anything about using jihad to bring him here sooner, though.

In any case, I'm aware that there's stuff in the Koran about conquering the enemies of Islam, just like the OT is full of stuff about conquering the enemies of Judaism. And if I remember right the Christians also justified their Holy Wars by cherry picking from the OT.

Were you trying to make a point about how much the Abrahamic religions have in common?

ed wrote:
And if I remember right the Christians also justified their Holy Wars by cherry picking from the OT.

back to the drawing board ed. Here's why they were justified ... and there's lots more where that came from.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... meline.htm
http://www.redstate.com/2013/05/22/a-ti ... dark-ages/

from redstate article:
Virtually nobody in the West and/or what passes for Christendom today argues that violence can or should be justified on the basis of things that happened a thousand years ago.

this one made me laugh ... everyone, that is, except the president of the U.S. ...

"lest we forget"...
http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/ ... ristianity

ed wrote:
In any case, I'm aware that there's stuff in the Koran about conquering the enemies of Islam, just like the OT is full of stuff about conquering the enemies of Judaism.

and just like Obama, you conflate Christian/Jewish events of 1000 to 5000 years ago ( in your most recent comparison ) with actual real time modern day terrorism perpetrated by those who "today", not 1 or 2 or 5 millennium ago kill indiscriminately in the most torturous ways possible...

I wondered then as I do now if Obama would be so PC if it was his family under such horrid duress ... or you ed and your family ... would you equate your modern day circumstance in terror with that of the wars waged by Jews and Christians thousands of years ago ... as they buried your child alive, crucified your other children, burned others alive ... beheaded ... ?

Move along, nothing to be seen...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/613 ... an-Hamburg


Again, nothing at all, let them all in on the grounds of compassion...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijxknaKOXVc

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Holey Dooley I'm strugglin here like a fat kid at boot camp!
I love you B.W and respect you bucket loads but I gotta say I feel like giving myself 20 face palms.
This frustration is not because of your post directly or this board but what I have been witnessing across the spectrum.
I can not stress this enough, and I'm going to use BIG letters for exaggeration and out of exasperation
DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ OR SEE. DO NOT GET YOUR NEWS FROM LESS THAN CREDIBLE SOURCES. ANYONE CAN PUT ANY RUBBISH ON THE INTERNET AND PASS IT OFF AS NEWS. iT DOESNT MAKE IT TRUE OR FACTUAL. FOR THE SWEET LOVE OF JESUS IN THIS AGE OF INTERNET MEDIA YOU MUST, MUST, MUST CHECK THE VALIDY OF EVERY PIECE OF 'NEWS' YOU COME ACROSS.
CREDIBLE JOURNALSIM HAS BEEN LOST IN THE TIDE OF INTERNET GARBABE.

Okay, enough with the capitals.
But I'm so incredibly frustrated. The number of stories I have researched of late, primarily in regards to Muslims have 90% proven to be bull crap.
These are 'news' stories claiming an actual, supposedly factual occurrence that just has no backing, no credible news source has followed the story but one idiot makes up a load of baloney, pops allegedly in the article then puts it on the Internet where stacks of other sites repost the same 'news' over and over again. No new material has been added, the heading is the same, no other journalists pick up the story and reports on it.
Like the first link above.
One article circulating the Internet. I could find no other, not one account of this event that deviated in language or format. I searched every major news source and found nothing, the only newspaper was Express UK, which is a conservative paper, that is known for its tabloid baloney.

On FB a few backs there were stories filtering through about some shenanigans occurring in Germany with the refugees. I could find no credible news sources, my best mate is German and was there for a month so I got her on the case. I asked her if these stories were being broadcast in Germany to which she answered no. Funny how these stories were getting around the Interent and social media like wild fire.
This is one example. The have been many. From 'news' stories that can be found on the Interent about Australians being asked by councils to remove Christians decorations as to not offend Muslims. I knew this BS when I saw it, but when I clicked on the numerous websites claiming this as 'news' the comment sections where awash with people making all kinds of derogatory remakes about Muslims and about them needing to peeve off out of this country. All the while I'm thinking you bloody idiots the story is not even real. Which it was proven to be false, but that doesn't stop far too many people reading it and not thinking to check, making comments that are disgusting and fueling an unrest towards Muslims.

Now the second link, the YouTube video.
Where are these men from? When was this taken? Which country are they in? Where are they headed?
This video that runs for less than 2 minutes, has no commentary, there is no explanation, it is footage of a large group of Arab men with backpacks on, walking along. Are they Syrian refugees? Are they refugees at all? Had they come from a camp?
Who bloody knows???
This video means nothing.
It has no cred whatsoever.
You can't get your news from Pamela Geller because you have subsribed to her channel and think that's news, that it is real or factual.
You know what was most alarming about that video, the comment section.
They were called dogs, pigs, vermon, burn this scum to ash, disgusting satanic ****stains, a marching rape-a-thon and it goes on and on......

Here's an article on the YouTube video that Pamela Geller posted.
http://pamelageller.com/2015/10/video-n ... -men.html/

The article says where it is.

Melanie Love ya...

If we do not warn of danger then how can that be love?

I learned a long time ago that evil exist. Part of my career in criminal justice had me work with evil. I know all to well how evil puts on a smiley face in order to game people and future victims into a false sense of security to latter strike them.

You have a religion founded upon ancient moon god religions modernized that demands in its writing to lie, kill, conversion by the sword - enslave or kill the infidel (all non- muslims) and non compliant muslims. I do not trust them - sorry if that offends. Nor can I accept their religion of death and submission. The next war will most likely involve Islam. Islam is seeking world domination. You may not like that and say how insensitive this is but the fact remains, Islam is evil, period.

Japanese Bushido presented a great evil. It was ignored. Then they bombed your country and threatened it in WW2. Next, the Fascist of Germany and Italy were are first lauded as great saviors to pull folks out the great depression - the trains ran on time - oh how wonderful news media extolled the virtues of these leaders and their good deed accomplishments. Then a war, the Holocaust, and folks learned the hard way how evil seduces, deceives, ticks, lies, kills, murders... enslaves...

Evil is out there. It has its smiley face phase - all I can do is warn against this and be called names for warning. There are things God's hates. Evil is one of them. Love warns of dangers and takes the courageous stand to actually defend the weak, children, elderly, the naive, family, friends, from evil. If love did not, then how dare it call itself love.

All I can do is warn of the dangers posed by all of Islam and expose it by its empirical well documented historical and current deeds and doctrines. Not poplar with the Rick Warren love Islam way crowd. I do know Muslims who converted truly to Jesus and their disdain toward Islams also shouts warnings about it, that, are, well, ignored.

Things are heating up world wide and a conflict will ensue. The bible speaks of this. Hugging an enemy does make one a friend, only deceives them not to see the blow coming from behind - that is Islam. Can't trust that religion. Sorry - you cannot.

So if a woman desires to wear a burka in 90+ degree heat, be treated as a lower 5 th class sub human, like to be beaten, have no defense against rape, let a woman choose Islam if she likes that sort of thing. Islam's tack record for treatment of women is not good. Evil is evil no matter the smile or the hug.

Poor gal in the video and the grinning Islamic man doing a photo op. I really feel sorry for the woman. She has no rights even to her own body as she is owned by a man. I pity these folks trapped in Islam tricked by Satan to believe a lie and submit to it with utter abandon or else.


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Melanie, trust me, it is never my intent to offend you.

The real question comes down to this:

Do we Christians celebrate cultural diversity so much that we learn to become like the world or other cultures becoming like us? What is he purpose of the gospel?

Nice to have friends that are not Christians and be nice to them and all but are we becoming like them or they becoming like Christ? What is he purpose of the gospel?

If salt loses its saltiness then it is cast out to the dung hill as it is worthless. Jesus said that. Being so nice as to invite a sex offender in your home to live and take care of one's children is not an act of superior christian love used to win the sex offender to Christ, the offender doesn't care about other than use his words to exploit others so he can have his way. It is not wise to have those who seek to slay you live with you and be buddies with them in hopes they will change. There is evil out there that seeks to destroy us and our faith.

Turning the other check, and feeding the enemy has its place but it is not the cure all. Jesus is coming back in Revelation 19 and 20 as judge and executioner of His enemies. He gives great grace to all but when folks reject it, seek to abuse it, he does not return to be nice to rejectors. Vengeance belongs to Him.

There comes a time when we too must honestly assess if Muslims friends are becoming like us or we them? If not and we just accept them to remain as they are - then what use is the gospel?

I suggest speaking with those once Muslim whom are now Christians and reject Islam warning against it and know its evil by having lived in it. There is a smiley face phase in Islamic conquest, just as sex offenders use to game their victims to accept them into their homes and churches.

Please be wise and gentle, Matthew 10:16. Being gentle has nothing to do with being a doormat. One needs to be wise in whom they will be gentle with is what Jesus means. After all wise wisdom calls out - Proverbs 8:1-36, Proverbs 1:20-33.

One needs to ask when they have non christian friends, are we becoming like them under a pretense of demonstrating a superior love or will they reach forth to become like us? If they so reach, then, you can take them by the hand and lead them home to Jesus helping them along the way. If they are not and desire you to be like them, what use is the gospel?

Agape love protects, rebukes, chastises, and convicts. When angered, its fury none can stand. God's Agape exercises a justice more profound than the human mind can fully fathom. We must shed our conventions and notions of human-centric agape defining it to mean God's agape love.

God's agape actually divides those that will be his own out from those who will not be his own. It respects decisions, warns of the consequences of sin's dysfunction, and does not condone this dysfunction. God's agape love can be quite abrasive too in order to bring lasting conviction to become God's own reconciled back to the personal purposes God has for an repentant individual. Once the mind is changed, actions follow, learning to leave darkness behind by learning to lean on Jesus. God's agape demands absolute unconditional surrender to him to intervene in our lives so he can then unconditionally work within us by a love profoundly changing us to be his own beloved.

Yes, while his love indeed freely provides for all a stage to live in which to return to him or reject, God's great agape love still demands absolute surrender to Him. That takes faith - active faith learning to lean and overcome the dysfunction of sin and learn how to set others free to enter a kingdom not of this world.

What use is the gospel if it has no effect?

Blessings to all...

...and love to Melanie

and Apologies to you for my abrasiveness
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