So God should give the rapist a place on earth?Kenny wrote:What would I have God do? How 'bout hell without the torture? Let those who reject him go to a place akin to what we currently have here on Earth, where they can be without God, and whatever they make of the place they can sink or swim, make the best of a Godless situation, or destroy themselves as they choose? Because not everybody going to hell is going to be like the child rapist in your scenario.Kurieuo wrote:Yes, it is a place of torture and agony.Kenny wrote:What is Hell? Kinda depends upon who you ask; but most agree it is a place of torture and agony.Kurieuo wrote:What is Hell?Kenny wrote: Hell.
Ken
Why does it exist?
Who'd go there?
Why does it exist? Because God created it
Who'd go there? Most people say Satan, his angels, and anybody who doesn't make it to Heaven.
I realize like anything else in religion, there is not a consensus among believers, so perhaps you might have a different perspective, but I just answered the questions the way I've heard other people answer.
Ken
Yes, God does ultimately create the place.
Yes, Satan, his angels and those without Christ are there.
However, where we would differ with God designing and creating Hell specifically as a place of torture (like a torture chamber of sorts) to specifically punish souls for eternity. If God did this, then I'd still disagree with you that this takes away our free choice in our world (since God has withdrawn himself sufficiently enough for people to be able to bury a knowledge of God and ignore His existence if they so desire). However, it does bring God's loving nature into question.
Rather, I see hell as a necessary place if God is to rightfully reign over all creation.
Those who do not want God, who reject God, or cannot be accepted without God impugning His own holiness, God's goodness, God's purity, must necessarily be cast out.
Souls will be tortured for eternity because God will withdraw Himself as much as possible and give them a world without Himself reigning in it.
Consider some serial child rapist and torturer of hundreds of children in this life.
What would you have a good and loving God do with such?
Accept, embrace and welcome such into His kingdom?
Or should justice be meted out and evil dealt with?
If such had their way, they would probably love to just rape and torture God Himself for eternity.
Such a person doesn't love God, and clearly some punishment is in order as a matter of justice on behalf of those he committed evil against... so what would you have God do?
Ken
Along side others who he can rape?
Maybe little children?
You see, although you don't see, God is still very much here in our world.
God doesn't just create, but God sustains the order of creation. Creates boundaries and limitations.
A place without God, is a place without the source of goodness. It is a place of disorder not order and stability (Colossians 1:17). God isn't going to bear along side those who don't want Him forever. He is going to give them what they want and/or what we righteously deserve: being cast out from God who is the source of life. Interesting that the lake of fire is termed the second death. (Rev 20:14)
As for "not everybody going to hell is going to be like the child rapist".
Yes, but through the question asked of the rapist I think we can both see that the rapist ought to be punished. At least, given God's existence, then a place where God withdraws himself from looks to be a necessary corollary if a good, just and loving God exists. Especially once understood that God is the source of many things taken for granted, like goodness and order, then remove all that and a place without God could only be torturous to those forced to be there.