Evidence for God from Science

melanie wrote:Welcome back Min
Maybe the question should be "does anything attract you to G&S"

Sure, People like you.

I think some of you may have mistaken my intent for this thread so just to clarify...

Often I hear from atheists what repells them about Christianity and I was just interested in knowing if anything actually attracts them. I like to 'flip coins'..see whats on the otherside

Attraction is obviously not the way into the kingdom. Or if it is, its the wrong door.

Some days nothing attracts me and so based on attraction, I'd be in trouble.

It is infact quite unattractive at times.

Nessa wrote:I think some of you may have mistaken my intent for this thread so just to clarify...

Often I hear from atheists what repells them about Christianity and I was just interested in knowing if anything actually attracts them. I like to 'flip coins'..see whats on the otherside

Attraction is obviously not the way into the kingdom. Or if it is, its the wrong door.

Some days nothing attracts me and so based on attraction, I'd be in trouble.

It is infact quite unattractive at times.

Perhaps the word "attract" is somehow off.
Maybe it is, "Can you think of any reason you'd
want to be Christian?"

Here is a question for you:

Suppose you discovered, somehow,
that there is a god, some vast intelligence to
the universe.

Maybe you are the one who at say the 777 trillionth
decimal of Pi finds a code. "I am here" or something whimsical likre,
"I wondered when you'd get here?"

Ok, now what? What is a suitable response to this knowldge?

Publicize it, sure, but then? What does a person do next? Ask others'
opinions? Try to find out more on your own? What if a few words
of code is all there ever is?

People have burned animals and plans, let their fingernails grow,
sung "shall we gather at the river", thinking that is what they are supposed to
do about god.

To me, it makes the same kind of sense that it would make if
an ant managed to discover New York City, and felt that called on him
to walk in circles backward while waving his antennae.

I've not detected god, and if there is one, I dont think Christianity
looks remotely like the right response t having detected a god.

What would you think is the thing to do if god did reveal himself,
but gave no other info but that he is there?

Audie: What would you think is the thing to do if god did reveal himself, but gave no other info but that he is there?

Well, then I would say such a God would be irrelevant to us, as 1) we wouldn't know what he was like; 2) wouldn't know what he desired of us - if anything; 3) wouldn't know if he would help us, hated us, we're just here for his amusement - what? In other words, we still effectively be on our own, in a helpless state in a dark world. ALL we would know of such a god is that he exists and that our existence was due to him.

But contrast your fictitious god to what the REAL God of the Bible - of so many authors, 66 books, 16 centuries of communications, of coming here, becoming fully man (while still fully God), and DYING for us. So, He did not leave us ignorant, as He has prolifically communicated with us, visited us with a powerful impact, so much that the world still marks time by His entrance into the world, and lives are daily and radically changed by Him and His Word. So, Audie, what you describe is not the God we believe in.

Happy "Year of the Monkey," Audie!

Ok, and competing stats for competing deities.

If you found proof of god why would you think it was this one
and not that?

I dont feel "alone and helpless", what is with that?

Ok, and competing stats for competing deities.

If you found proof of god why would you think it was this one
and not that?

I dont feel "alone and helpless", what is with that?

One thing attracts me to Christianity.... Christ.

Through Him I find God. And truth.

I still don't consider myself religious, I am a Christian, I love and worship Christ. A real, living, breathing Christ.

Every time I doubted, I kept coming back to the fact Christ was, and is, real. If what he said was true then I feel I would be a fool to dismiss it, the possibility of God, of hope, of redemption.
It was religion that put me off, not Christianity.

Audie: I don't feel "alone and helpless", what is with that?

Perhaps that is because you haven't yet been in a totally hopeless, miserable, overwhelming or life and death situation yet. People go through unimaginable, horrific things, often, with absolutely no ability to overcome them. They get sick, suffer terribly - often for many years - grow sicker, and then they agonizingly die. Often alone - even though my reference of that was meant to convey them having NO one above or below that has the power or ability to help them. If you happen to be one of those who is relatively comfortable, never hungry, don't live in war zone or around only evil people, you may not sense your aloneness or helplessness. But it WILL come - for everyone. Question is, will a person turn to God to overcome, to cope, to have hope where there seems no hope.

Audie wrote:
Perhaps the word "attract" is somehow off.
Maybe it is, "Can you think of any reason you'd
want to be Christian?"

Hey Audie,

No, none of my words were off - attract or any other word.
It was my question and I asked it exactly how I wanted it to be asked

Maybe you're after someone else's question instead?

Philip wrote:

Audie: I don't feel "alone and helpless", what is with that?

Perhaps that is because you haven't yet been in a totally hopeless, miserable, overwhelming or life and death situation yet. People go through unimaginable, horrific things, often, with absolutely no ability to overcome them. They get sick, suffer terribly - often for many years - grow sicker, and then they agonizingly die. Often alone - even though my reference of that was meant to convey them having NO one above or below that has the power or ability to help them. If you happen to be one of those who is relatively comfortable, never hungry, don't live in war zone or around only evil people, you may not sense your aloneness or helplessness. But it WILL come - for everyone. Question is, will a person turn to God to overcome, to cope, to have hope where there seems no hope.

You would certainly be profoundly mistaken in your " perhaps" guess about me.

But sure, while I do live wel, life can turn very suddenly. I know that well.
"God"tho, wont play deus ex machina for me or anyone else to get me or you
or the man behind the tree our of a torture chamber or any other nasty situstion.

If you feel you'd be in darkness if not for faith in God, perhaps that is so for you.

Whether that is a net plus or minus for you, I've no idea.

Nessa wrote:

Audie wrote:
Perhaps the word "attract" is somehow off.
Maybe it is, "Can you think of any reason you'd
want to be Christian?"

Hey Audie,

No, none of my words were off - attract or any other word.
It was my question and I asked it exactly how I wanted it to be asked

Maybe you're after someone else's question instead?

Nah, just wondering where you are coming from. I guess it was as straightforward as my answer, "no".

Audie wrote:

Philip wrote:

Audie: I don't feel "alone and helpless", what is with that?

Perhaps that is because you haven't yet been in a totally hopeless, miserable, overwhelming or life and death situation yet. People go through unimaginable, horrific things, often, with absolutely no ability to overcome them. They get sick, suffer terribly - often for many years - grow sicker, and then they agonizingly die. Often alone - even though my reference of that was meant to convey them having NO one above or below that has the power or ability to help them. If you happen to be one of those who is relatively comfortable, never hungry, don't live in war zone or around only evil people, you may not sense your aloneness or helplessness. But it WILL come - for everyone. Question is, will a person turn to God to overcome, to cope, to have hope where there seems no hope.

You would certainly be profoundly mistaken in your " perhaps" guess about me.

I dont think we can assume what any person has or hasnt gone through especially if we dont really know them well

Nessa wrote:

Audie wrote:

Philip wrote:

Audie: I don't feel "alone and helpless", what is with that?

Perhaps that is because you haven't yet been in a totally hopeless, miserable, overwhelming or life and death situation yet. People go through unimaginable, horrific things, often, with absolutely no ability to overcome them. They get sick, suffer terribly - often for many years - grow sicker, and then they agonizingly die. Often alone - even though my reference of that was meant to convey them having NO one above or below that has the power or ability to help them. If you happen to be one of those who is relatively comfortable, never hungry, don't live in war zone or around only evil people, you may not sense your aloneness or helplessness. But it WILL come - for everyone. Question is, will a person turn to God to overcome, to cope, to have hope where there seems no hope.

You would certainly be profoundly mistaken in your " perhaps" guess about me.

I dont think we can assume what any person has or hasnt gone through especially if we dont really know them well

So true. Nor can we in any way reliably guess how they will deal with it long term or short.

But what else can an atheist do at the dying bedside of his only child except to cry out to GOD?

Audie wrote:

Philip wrote:

Audie: I don't feel "alone and helpless", what is with that?

Perhaps that is because you haven't yet been in a totally hopeless, miserable, overwhelming or life and death situation yet. People go through unimaginable, horrific things, often, with absolutely no ability to overcome them. They get sick, suffer terribly - often for many years - grow sicker, and then they agonizingly die. Often alone - even though my reference of that was meant to convey them having NO one above or below that has the power or ability to help them. If you happen to be one of those who is relatively comfortable, never hungry, don't live in war zone or around only evil people, you may not sense your aloneness or helplessness. But it WILL come - for everyone. Question is, will a person turn to God to overcome, to cope, to have hope where there seems no hope.

You would certainly be profoundly mistaken in your " perhaps" guess about me.

But sure, while I do live wel, life can turn very suddenly. I know that well.
"God"tho, wont play deus ex machina for me or anyone else to get me or you
or the man behind the tree our of a torture chamber or any other nasty situstion.

If you feel you'd be in darkness if not for faith in God, perhaps that is so for you.

Whether that is a net plus or minus for you, I've no idea.

He (God) may not get you out of a situation but He can, and has got people through it.