Questions about the bible !

[abelcainsbrother]

--> Nessa : "Alex, what is your purpose for coming here?"

I wanted to investigated further before saying " bible is not true and that the stories are not actual past events."
I might have been convinced otherwise if my issues and questions would have been answered satisfactory.
Also the way you who are considered changed and renewed by Jesus behaved on this post convinced me further that my conclusion in the previous post is true also regarding the New Testament.
I posted on another forum and i got the same reactions.

-->abelcainsbrother :"Just because you got your bible teaching from atheists does not get you away from the big fat problem you have and that is you have no evidence or proof,not any kind of evidence to back up what you believe like we do. But yet you'll prop your opinion up against Christianity that has the most evidence behind it than any other religion and especially when it comes to atheists and agnostics who have absolutely no evidence behind their opinion about God. You believe and accept things based on blind faith,unlike Christians."


Going back to assuming things about me that are not true and babbling nonsense. Again i say i am not an atheist.My religion is not atheism.I don't have to prove anything.I didn't said i don't believe in a superior being at all.I am just not believing in Yahweh and Jesus as i don't believe in Zamolxis or Ra or Zeus or Shiva.
I didn't got my teachings from atheists.I watched debates about the bible.I didn't just listened to one side.

This will be my last post. I have been trying to remain patient, but this is getting ridiculous.

I did not say you were atheist,only that you got your bible teaching from them,from people who could careless about evidence. You overlook this.the people you trust. And if you believe in some other god you are believing in it based on blind faith compared to a Christian. Does evidence matter to you? Or are you more concerned with what sounds good to you? Evidence matters when a person is truly seeking the truth and not when they are'nt.

[Nessa]

I wanted to investigated further before saying " bible is not true and that the stories are not actual past events."
I might have been convinced otherwise if my issues and questions would have been answered satisfactory.
Also the way you who are considered changed and renewed by Jesus behaved on this post convinced me further that my conclusion in the previous post is true also regarding the New Testament.
I posted on another forum and i got the same reactions

.

Do you understand though that by your actions you may not be showing your true honest intentions? You were given links, for example, that you would likely glean alot from. Did you read them?

It's not up to anyone here to convince you of the truth. Rather it is your responsibility to find out the truth for yourself. Though there will always be genuine people such as the people here at this forum who would like to help you with your journey.

I'm sorry that you feel you are taken the wrong way. Please understand though, how frustrating it can be trying to give someone help but all they seem to want to do is close the door at every turn, only to come back with another 'trap'. I am not saying that is your intention though and perhaps you have a different style of approaching all this thats been taken wrongly? You mentioned that you had similar responses from another forum so that is quite possible.

It's good to keep in mind too that this board has a specific purpose so if moderators feel that the purpose is being de-railed then they do have a right to confront someone and call them on what they see as dishonest intentions.

I understand you don't want to be stereotyped yet you posted a list of stereotypes of fundie Christians. If you really are here with honest intentions, I think you would hopefully be willing to see where other people here are coming from. And not to be so quick to say that their behaviour is unchanged by Christ. You will not find perfection here but you will find help if you are really willing to receive it.

[Hortator]

And thus another legend enters the annals of history...

[Kurieuo]

This will be my last post. I have been trying to remain patient, but this is getting ridiculous.

[IceMobster]

The conclusion is :
The old testament is just a collection of fantastic, supernatural,mythical tales that portraits a universe so different from ours it seems out of this world. A place where Yahweh talks directly to people and helps them conquer cities, kill their enemies, give them food out of thin air ; a place where you see fantastic things and clear proofs of Yahweh: talking burning bush, rivers that turn into blood, sticks that turn into snakes, people that turn into salt, seas that depart, angels that walk visible among people and talk to them, people that are fireproof, people strong like the mythical figure Hercules, giants 9 feet tall and so on.

The story of Noah is no more real then the story of Utnapishtim.
The god of the Jews and Christians:Yahweh is no more real then the god of Gets: Zamolxis.
If Jews were really in close relationship with a real god,a perfect moral being we wouldn't have seen so much imoral elements in their culture like:human sacrifice,animal sacrifice,slavery,gays intolerance,all the weird laws about woman menstruation,genocide ,raping and murder.
They were no more morally evolved then the other ancient civilizations.

--> Kurieuo :"until Alex showed he was playing a game."
I am not playing any game.Your just being paranoid and a fundamentalist Christian.

Top Ten Signs You’re a Fundamentalist Christian

10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!

6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”

3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, someone rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

♫♫ Assumptions from the other sideeeeeeeeeeeeee ♫♫

[B. W.]

After reading alexXcJRO post here, I have come to the conclusion that alexX has absolutely no clue what sin is at all.

So in order to straighten this out: AlexX, how do you define sin?

What is it?
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[Hortator]

After reading alexXcJRO post here, I have come to the conclusion that alexX has absolutely no clue what sin is at all.

So in order to straighten this out: AlexX, how do you define sin?

What is it?
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Our anti-hero has trotted off into the sunset, check the other page.

[RickD]

After reading alexXcJRO post here, I have come to the conclusion that alexX has absolutely no clue what sin is at all.

So in order to straighten this out: AlexX, how do you define sin?

What is it?
-
-
-

Our anti-hero has trotted off into the sunset, check the other page.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 03#p205303

[Storyteller]

yom = day?

Isn't there some doubt that it is a literal day? How/why is the reference clearly an ordinary day?

Can you suggest any material that details the chronology, timing, dating, hard to explain what I mean but hopefully you get the gist

Why doesnt no death before the Fall allow for billions of years?

[RickD]

yom = day?

Isn't there some doubt that it is a literal day? How/why is the reference clearly an ordinary day?

Can you suggest any material that details the chronology, timing, dating, hard to explain what I mean but hopefully you get the gist

Why doesnt no death before the Fall allow for billions of years?

I'll take the last question. If the OT genealogies are taken without any gaps, without anyone missing, and as Adam being the first human, then history only goes back thousands of years. Add to that, Adam being created on the sixth 24-hour day, then billions of years couldn't have happened before Adam sinned. That's the gist of it according to a young earth interpretation.

But there's nothing in scripture, I'd contend, that states that there wasn't death before the fall.

Some interpret the death caused by Adam's sin as only spiritual (mainly Theistic Evolutionists, and some progressive creationists). Others interpret it as physical and spiritual(mainly YECs and many progressive creationists).

[Jac3510]

yom = day?

You find me one translation that suggests another word. You'll find one doesn't exist. And think about the collective experience of all those translators. EVERYONE agrees yom should be translated "day."

Isn't there some doubt that it is a literal day? How/why is the reference clearly an ordinary day?

No, not really any doubt there. A small minority of interpreters who hold to the Framework Hypothesis don't think it's a literal day in that they think that it's just a rhetorical device, but even they admit that the rhetorical device used is a literal day.

OECs claim that yom doesn't literally refer to a day but rather literally refers to an unspecified period of time. In my judgment, that's not an appropriate translation, much less interpretation, and that for technical linguistic reasons. But that's the position anyway.

Can you suggest any material that details the chronology, timing, dating, hard to explain what I mean but hopefully you get the gist

I don't, I'm sorry.

Why doesnt no death before the Fall allow for billions of years?

Because suppose the world had been around for billions of years--hundreds of millions of them with animals walking around--with no death. That just wouldn't make any sense for reasons you could probably work out. The only way to posit hundreds of millions of years is to posit a world of death and carnivorous activity.

[abelcainsbrother]

If there was a former world that perished that had death in it how would or could it effect our world we now live in? I think we know certain dinosaurs ate other dinosaurs and so this causes problems for YEC who claim dinosaurs were on the earth with man before Noah's flood. I know from researching William Buckland that from his examination of the fossilized gut of dinosaurs in the late 1700's\ early 1800's that he discovered that certain dinosaurs ate other dinosaurs which is why he gave dinosaurs the nickname " Satan's creatures" . so you cannot say they were vegetarian dinosaurs,some were but not all,like T-Rex were not.