"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
Things that can be demonstrated.PaulSacramento wrote:Such as?Kenny wrote:Yes. I see certain things as objective.PaulSacramento wrote:Because your materialistic view demands it.Kenny wrote:Why?PaulSacramento wrote:Materialistic people MUST see everything as subjective.
Ken
Or do you see certain things as objective?
K
Demonstrated in what way?, to whom?Kenny wrote:Things that can be demonstrated.PaulSacramento wrote:Such as?Kenny wrote:Yes. I see certain things as objective.PaulSacramento wrote:Because your materialistic view demands it.Kenny wrote: Why?
Ken
Or do you see certain things as objective?
K
K
1+1=2 can be demonstrated as true using mathematics.PaulSacramento wrote:Demonstrated in what way?, to whom?Kenny wrote:Things that can be demonstrated.PaulSacramento wrote:Such as?Kenny wrote:Yes. I see certain things as objective.PaulSacramento wrote:
Because your materialistic view demands it.
Or do you see certain things as objective?
K
K
No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)PaulSacramento wrote:When we get into these discussions ( objective/subjective) we always hit that wall of you not knowing the difference between THAT something IS ( that there is a good) to WHAT something is ( what is good).
To you love is just a feeling, right?Kenny wrote:So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?Nicki wrote:I don't think it's as mathematically calculable as that.Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:I’m not so much interested as to whether or not you are pro capital punishment, but rather if Gods laws are. Since Gods laws are objective they should obvious for all to see. And since Gods value on human life is objective, if scripture does support capital punishment, then the point when the cost of a crime a person commits exceeds the value of their life should be as easy to determine as 1+1=2. If so then what crimes are worthy of capital punishment.Nessa wrote:
I am not pro capital punishment put I do believe in having to pay for your crimes. Killing the murderer is not going to bring back the loved one. And if its all about fairness then we are in the wrong world.
However if Gods laws are NOT pro capital punishment, than what about all those other people who read the same scriptures you read yet DO believe in capital punishment? Do they just ignore Gods laws? Do they know the laws but choose to work against God? Are these just dishonest Christians?
KenSo the value of a serial killers life, is never exceeded by the combined value of lives of all of his victims?Nicki wrote:I think it could be said that a person's value to God is infinite - so the cost of their crime could never exceed the value of their life.
So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.Nicki wrote: Not every issue is addressed in black and white in the Bible, but based on the Old Testament I think it can be said that capital punishment is not necessarily wrong.
Kenny wrote:So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?Nicki wrote:I don't think it's as mathematically calculable as that.Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:
I’m not so much interested as to whether or not you are pro capital punishment, but rather if Gods laws are. Since Gods laws are objective they should obvious for all to see. And since Gods value on human life is objective, if scripture does support capital punishment, then the point when the cost of a crime a person commits exceeds the value of their life should be as easy to determine as 1+1=2. If so then what crimes are worthy of capital punishment.
However if Gods laws are NOT pro capital punishment, than what about all those other people who read the same scriptures you read yet DO believe in capital punishment? Do they just ignore Gods laws? Do they know the laws but choose to work against God? Are these just dishonest Christians?
KenSo the value of a serial killers life, is never exceeded by the combined value of lives of all of his victims?Nicki wrote:I think it could be said that a person's value to God is infinite - so the cost of their crime could never exceed the value of their life.
So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.Nicki wrote: Not every issue is addressed in black and white in the Bible, but based on the Old Testament I think it can be said that capital punishment is not necessarily wrong.
An emotional feeling; yes.Nessa wrote: To you love is just a feeling, right?
What other way is there?Nessa wrote: How can you place value on a life just by a mere feeling?
Love is primarly a choice.Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?Nicki wrote:I don't think it's as mathematically calculable as that.Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:
I’m not so much interested as to whether or not you are pro capital punishment, but rather if Gods laws are. Since Gods laws are objective they should obvious for all to see. And since Gods value on human life is objective, if scripture does support capital punishment, then the point when the cost of a crime a person commits exceeds the value of their life should be as easy to determine as 1+1=2. If so then what crimes are worthy of capital punishment.
However if Gods laws are NOT pro capital punishment, than what about all those other people who read the same scriptures you read yet DO believe in capital punishment? Do they just ignore Gods laws? Do they know the laws but choose to work against God? Are these just dishonest Christians?
KenSo the value of a serial killers life, is never exceeded by the combined value of lives of all of his victims?Nicki wrote:I think it could be said that a person's value to God is infinite - so the cost of their crime could never exceed the value of their life.
So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.Nicki wrote: Not every issue is addressed in black and white in the Bible, but based on the Old Testament I think it can be said that capital punishment is not necessarily wrong.An emotional feeling; yes.Nessa wrote: To you love is just a feeling, right?
What other way is there?Nessa wrote: How can you place value on a life just by a mere feeling?
Ken
Kenny wrote:So the value of a serial killers life, is never exceeded by the combined value of lives of all of his victims?Nicki wrote:I think it could be said that a person's value to God is infinite - so the cost of their crime could never exceed the value of their life.
I don't think it's as mathematically calculable as that.
Things have value apart from people's feelings, don't they? The value of money for example? To me if God says something has value it just does.So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?
Nessa said she wasn't pro capital punishment - as with a lot of things I'm a bit of a fence-sitter. Some people have to be more decisive than me and make decisions about these things, I suppose!So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.Nicki wrote: Not every issue is addressed in black and white in the Bible, but based on the Old Testament I think it can be said that capital punishment is not necessarily wrong.
Their value only temporarily decrease with me. Their value in the eyes of everyone else remains the same.Nessa wrote:Love is primarly a choice.Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?Nicki wrote:I don't think it's as mathematically calculable as that.Kenny wrote:
So the value of a serial killers life, is never exceeded by the combined value of lives of all of his victims?
So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.Nicki wrote: Not every issue is addressed in black and white in the Bible, but based on the Old Testament I think it can be said that capital punishment is not necessarily wrong.An emotional feeling; yes.Nessa wrote: To you love is just a feeling, right?
What other way is there?Nessa wrote: How can you place value on a life just by a mere feeling?
Ken
What if you find yourself hating your spouse oneday but love them the next?
Does their value temporarily decrease?
Kenny wrote:So the value of a serial killers life, is never exceeded by the combined value of lives of all of his victims?Nicki wrote:I think it could be said that a person's value to God is infinite - so the cost of their crime could never exceed the value of their life.
I don't think it's as mathematically calculable as that.
So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?
The value of money is different; that is objective. $2.00 will always be worth $2.00 no matter how I feel about it. With people, its a bit more subjective and based on how you feelNicki wrote: Things have value apart from people's feelings, don't they? The value of money for example?
Makes perfect sense to me with you being theist and all. With me being Atheist and all, does it make sense to you that something has value to me only if I say it does?Nicki wrote:To me if God says something has value it just does.
So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.Nicki wrote: Not every issue is addressed in black and white in the Bible, but based on the Old Testament I think it can be said that capital punishment is not necessarily wrong.
Yeah I do understand theists don't agree on the details of morality.Nicki wrote: Nessa said she wasn't pro capital punishment - as with a lot of things I'm a bit of a fence-sitter. Some people have to be more decisive than me and make decisions about these things, I suppose!
So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?Kenny wrote:No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)PaulSacramento wrote:When we get into these discussions ( objective/subjective) we always hit that wall of you not knowing the difference between THAT something IS ( that there is a good) to WHAT something is ( what is good).
Ken
Yes.PaulSacramento wrote:So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?Kenny wrote:No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)PaulSacramento wrote:When we get into these discussions ( objective/subjective) we always hit that wall of you not knowing the difference between THAT something IS ( that there is a good) to WHAT something is ( what is good).
Ken
Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote:So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?Kenny wrote:No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)PaulSacramento wrote:When we get into these discussions ( objective/subjective) we always hit that wall of you not knowing the difference between THAT something IS ( that there is a good) to WHAT something is ( what is good).
Ken
K
The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote:So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?Kenny wrote:No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)PaulSacramento wrote:When we get into these discussions ( objective/subjective) we always hit that wall of you not knowing the difference between THAT something IS ( that there is a good) to WHAT something is ( what is good).
Ken
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.