Evidence for God from Science

DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:43 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:00 pm The company that Hunter Biden worked for, which paid him up to $50k a month, was being investigated for corruption. VP Biden threatened to withhold money if the guy investigating his son's company wasn't fired. There's no evidence that Hunter Biden had any experience that would warrant a $50k per month position, other than his experience being the VP's son.

Joe Biden got his son a job for his personal benefit. A job that he had no business having.

I am well aware of the narrative that Trump and his allies want to perpetuate to distract from Trump's behavior.
And there is absolutely no evidence that Joe Biden got his son a job for personal benefit.
That is yet another evidence free Trumpian misrepresentation.

I gave a quote from Andrew Napolitano that explained the fundamental difference between Trump's behavior and Biden's behavior.

Perhaps the quote below will demonstrate that Biden's actions were taken to enact the foreign policy of the United States in conjunction with our EU allies to deal with corruption in the Ukraine.

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush, gave in March 2016 to a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

“By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin’s removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General’s Office,” Herbst testified. “U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place.”

In early 2016, Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko resigned in protest of corruption within Shokin’s office. In a televised statement, Kasko said: “Today, the General Prosecutor’s office is a brake on the reform of criminal justice, a hotbed of corruption, an instrument of political pressure, one of the key obstacles to the arrival of foreign investment in Ukraine.”

In reporting on Kasko’s resignation, Reuters noted that Ukraine’s “failure to tackle endemic corruption” threatened the IMF’s $40 billion aid program for Ukraine. At the time, the IMF put a hold on $1.7 billion in aid that had been due to be released to Ukraine four months earlier.

“After President Poroshenko complained that Shokin was taking too long to clean up corruption even within the PGO itself, he asked for Shokin’s resignation,” the CRS report said. Shokin submitted his resignation in February 2016 and was removed a month later.

Michael McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, on Sept. 20 tweeted that the “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”

There is no evidence at all that Biden's actions had anything to do with his son.
That claim is just Trumpian misinformation.

DBowling wrote:
There is no evidence at all that Biden's actions had anything to do with his son.
That claim is just Trumpian misinformation.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:58 pm

DBowling wrote:
There is no evidence at all that Biden's actions had anything to do with his son.
That claim is just Trumpian misinformation.

[irrelevant picture snipped]

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:46 pm Also, Abe's been posting a lot. It was my understanding that you'd be providing a synopsis of each post. How are they coming along?

abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:35 pm Based on how this whole Ukraine conspiracy theory of impeachment was started based on a now known lie.Just as President Trump tweeted this is treason.As they are trying to overthrow the government based on a hoax.
Treason.
https://www.google.com/search?q=treason ... e&ie=UTF-8

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush

Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of the Kyiv-based Anti-Corruption Action Center (AntAC), told Radio Free Europe that Shokin “dumped important criminal investigations on corruption associated with [former President Viktor] Yanukovych, including the Burisma case.” Furthermore, “Ukrainian prosecutors and anti-corruption advocates who were pushing for an investigation into the dealings of Burisma and its owner, Mykola Zlochevskiy, said the probe had been dormant long before Biden leveled his demand,” Radio Free Europe reports.
“Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case,” Kaleniuk said to Radio Free Europe.
...
Risen added, “The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.”

Shokin claimed he was forced out because he was "leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings." Hunter Biden joined Burisma’s board of directors in spring 2014.
Shokin’s affidavit said then-Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko on several occasions asked him to "have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation. Therefore, I was forced to leave office, under direct and intense pressure from Joe Biden and the U.S. administration."
It’s unclear whether Burisma was actively under investigation by Shokin. Vitaliy Kasko, who had been Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation, told Bloomberg that the investigation was dormant.
Shokin’s affidavit says it was made at the request of lawyers for Dmitry Firtash for use in legal proceedings in Austria. (Firtash is a Ukrainian energy tycoon for whom U.S. prosecutors have sought extradition based on charges of money laundering and bribery.)

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:23 am Thanks K

As this video notes right at the beginning, the accusation against Biden is...
Joe Biden Fired a prosecutor to benefit his son.
And as has been pointed out numerous times there is no evidence to support this accusation.

Most of the video is a rehash of John Solomon's unverified conspiracy theory that is the basis of Trump's misinformation campaign.

The only claim of wrongdoing on Biden's part comes from an affidavit from Viktor Shokin, who was forced to resign after failing to address corruption in the Prosecutor's Office.
(from the link I posted earlier)
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush

The following article discusses the Shokin affidavit
https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/viktor-s ... vit-biden/

Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of the Kyiv-based Anti-Corruption Action Center (AntAC), told Radio Free Europe that Shokin “dumped important criminal investigations on corruption associated with [former President Viktor] Yanukovych, including the Burisma case.” Furthermore, “Ukrainian prosecutors and anti-corruption advocates who were pushing for an investigation into the dealings of Burisma and its owner, Mykola Zlochevskiy, said the probe had been dormant long before Biden leveled his demand,” Radio Free Europe reports.
“Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case,” Kaleniuk said to Radio Free Europe.
...
Risen added, “The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.”

From Politifact
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... -joe-bide/

Shokin claimed he was forced out because he was "leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings." Hunter Biden joined Burisma’s board of directors in spring 2014.
Shokin’s affidavit said then-Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko on several occasions asked him to "have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation. Therefore, I was forced to leave office, under direct and intense pressure from Joe Biden and the U.S. administration."
It’s unclear whether Burisma was actively under investigation by Shokin. Vitaliy Kasko, who had been Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation, told Bloomberg that the investigation was dormant.
Shokin’s affidavit says it was made at the request of lawyers for Dmitry Firtash for use in legal proceedings in Austria. (Firtash is a Ukrainian energy tycoon for whom U.S. prosecutors have sought extradition based on charges of money laundering and bribery.)

In Summary...
1. “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”
2. There is no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation.
3. “The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.”

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:04 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:23 am Thanks K

As this video notes right at the beginning, the accusation against Biden is...
Joe Biden Fired a prosecutor to benefit his son.
And as has been pointed out numerous times there is no evidence to support this accusation.

Most of the video is a rehash of John Solomon's unverified conspiracy theory that is the basis of Trump's misinformation campaign.

The only claim of wrongdoing on Biden's part comes from an affidavit from Viktor Shokin, who was forced to resign after failing to address corruption in the Prosecutor's Office.
(from the link I posted earlier)
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush

The following article discusses the Shokin affidavit
https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/viktor-s ... vit-biden/

Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of the Kyiv-based Anti-Corruption Action Center (AntAC), told Radio Free Europe that Shokin “dumped important criminal investigations on corruption associated with [former President Viktor] Yanukovych, including the Burisma case.” Furthermore, “Ukrainian prosecutors and anti-corruption advocates who were pushing for an investigation into the dealings of Burisma and its owner, Mykola Zlochevskiy, said the probe had been dormant long before Biden leveled his demand,” Radio Free Europe reports.
“Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case,” Kaleniuk said to Radio Free Europe.
...
Risen added, “The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.”

From Politifact
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... -joe-bide/

Shokin claimed he was forced out because he was "leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings." Hunter Biden joined Burisma’s board of directors in spring 2014.
Shokin’s affidavit said then-Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko on several occasions asked him to "have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation. Therefore, I was forced to leave office, under direct and intense pressure from Joe Biden and the U.S. administration."
It’s unclear whether Burisma was actively under investigation by Shokin. Vitaliy Kasko, who had been Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation, told Bloomberg that the investigation was dormant.
Shokin’s affidavit says it was made at the request of lawyers for Dmitry Firtash for use in legal proceedings in Austria. (Firtash is a Ukrainian energy tycoon for whom U.S. prosecutors have sought extradition based on charges of money laundering and bribery.)

In Summary...
1. “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”
2. There is no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation.
3. “The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.”

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:04 am

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:29 am

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:04 am

That's not much of a rejoinder, but you're not alone. The Trump Administration, his allies in Congress, and the pro-Trump media are also relying on similarly empty arguments. Do you have any evidence to support Trump's accusations?

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:48 am

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:29 am

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:04 am

That's not much of a rejoinder, but you're not alone. The Trump Administration, his allies in Congress, and the pro-Trump media are also relying on similarly empty arguments. Do you have any evidence to support Trump's accusations?

Like the guy in the video said, if you're already against Trump, you'll likely not believe the evidence.