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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:15 am
by bizzt
kateliz wrote:Yeah, so they can head straight to the liquor store. My dad was a homeless alcoholic for at least one year. He said that most guys on the street do that exact thing. Which is why you don't give them money, you give them what they should be buying with that money. I once gave a sincere looking guy a bag of home-made chocolate chip cookies that I had on me. He was very touched and softly thanked me. That may have made his week, and encouraged him.
A lot of them are mentally ill who refuse their medications, my dad told me as well. He was one of them while he was out there. That's a very hard spot to pick yourself up and out of. Thankfully he had the whereabouts to remember he had kids, miss them, and admit himself to a hospital. He ended up a few years later in a residential home for the mentally ill, and told me that a lot of the people there had been homeless alcoholics too. It's really a sad thing.
I went up to this other homeless guy I saw in the grocery parking lot. It was odd he was there because you never see any homeless people where I live. I went up to him out of a desire to help in some way, not knowing how. (Sorry, I just want to mention this one thing: he thought I was soliciting him! He was confused because he obviously thought I didn't look the part, and that helped me assure him I wasn't.) He said he didn't need any help with anything after I asked in a way I hoped wasn't offensive, and he understood that I was referring to him being homeless. He then told me, (he was waiting for the bus,) that he had just taken a shower and how it felt good. Said that it's good to take a shower at least every other day. Tugged at my heart, that did!
I did mention something about trusting God for needs. Not sure how I said it, but I tried to fit it into the conversation. I'm pretty sure I was talking about myself and my low-paying job. He got pretty uncomfortable with that and didn't say anything in response. Then his bus came, and I went back to my car and drove off speaking to God about him. I hope I did him some good, but if I did I couldn't tell. If I had been thinking I would have asked him if he had any kids, or family in general.
And if he hadn't left so soon I would've told him something about my dad. He looked a lot like him, which he astutely noticed from how I looked at him. Oh, and he also shared with me how he got the jacket he was wearing by helping someone with some labor. It obviously meant a lot to him, as it did to my dad when I bought him jeans, socks, underwear, shoes and a big, thick winter coat. These guys' hearts don't get touched with money- you got to give them something that really reaches them. Take them without shame into a restaraunt and treat them as someone worthwhile! Bring them to a Target and help them pick out some necessities.
My dad said that in Minneapolis, which is where he was when he was homeless, there's no shortage of places to get free meals, cots to sleep on and donated clothes. That's not always the case, obviously. But if you give these guys something that can touch their hearts and give them hope, then you've really done something good for them.
Sorry, I know I got a little off-topic! Just wanted to share!
Why would we judge on whether the person is getting alcohol or not. If a person needs money are we not supposed to respond. I am not saying we can't take them to a restaurant or something but we should not judge on how they spend their blessing that we give them
My two Cents
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:55 am
by Prodigal Son
that's cool, kateliz. when i was homeless, i had to beg sometimes. me and a bunch of other kids would just stand on the street and hold our hands out, "could you spare a little change?" most people walked right by like we weren't there. i would try to look them in the eye but it was almost as if they didn't have any. it's hard to say how it felt. almost worse than anything. i never really used the money i got that way for drugs. it was too humiliating. if i did that i was really starving. i would rather steal and do whatever than to feel like that.
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:37 pm
by kateliz
Prodigal, how old were you and for how long were you on the streets?
bizzt, I agree, but some people won't give just because they fear those things. I've heard many people say that's their reason for not giving to the homeless. I have given before and immediately after put the money in God's Hands through faith and prayer. I've done that with other donations and things of the like as well. Then there's no worry in it! I've also tried to "attach" prayers of blessings for other things along with the gifts. Not sure if that attachment concept is any good or not. Might as well just pray for them without trying to attach it to the gift!
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:04 pm
by ochotseat
bizzt wrote:
Why would we judge on whether the person is getting alcohol or not. If a person needs money are we not supposed to respond. I am not saying we can't take them to a restaurant or something but we should not judge on how they spend their blessing that we give them
My two Cents
Because alcohol, cigarettes, or drugs will only worsen their situation, so we're only doing them a favor.
Prodigal Son wrote:
when i was homeless, i had to beg sometimes. me and a bunch of other kids would just stand on the street and hold our hands out, "could you spare a little change?" most people walked right by like we weren't there. i would try to look them in the eye but it was almost as if they didn't have any. it's hard to say how it felt. almost worse than anything. i never really used the money i got that way for drugs. it was too humiliating. if i did that i was really starving. .
Don't blame them for not giving. It's understandable why they did not.
i would rather steal and do whatever than to feel like that.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:53 am
by bizzt
ochotseat wrote:bizzt wrote:
Why would we judge on whether the person is getting alcohol or not. If a person needs money are we not supposed to respond. I am not saying we can't take them to a restaurant or something but we should not judge on how they spend their blessing that we give them
My two Cents
Because alcohol, cigarettes, or drugs will only worsen their situation, so we're only doing them a favor.
And you know they will buy those things with the Money you give them?
Oh right you would rather not give them Money because you judge how they spend it. The Holy Spirit should tug on your soul a little more and make you realize that maybe the person really does need the money for FOOD, WATER, and the necessities of life...
It is not us who judges on being the Steward of the Money they receive. Hey maybe we should stop all the people that go to Bars and spend their Money on Alcohol! Or the people that are Alcoholics and are not on the Street and who work in the Enterprise Environment! Maybe we should take away their PayCheck!
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:47 am
by Mastermind
They're only human like you, which is probably why you've been insulting people out here.
I don't insult people unless they deserve it. And Jesus made fun of the pharisees. What exactly is your point?
Look at what you said earlier.
I have and I fail to see your point.
Calvin also supported republics. Don't you support them?
No, I support empires. If you're not familiar with common theologic debate terms let me know so that I may dumb my speech down to your level.
Congress recently banned partial-birth abortions.
I was under the impression that the attempted ban failed. I'm glad it did then.
August noticed your lack of response in the death penalty thread too. Moving on...
I don't visit this place often enough to remember what discussions I'm in.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:49 am
by Mastermind
och gimme a link to the capital punishment thread I can't find it.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:04 pm
by Prodigal Son
ocho:
don't blame them for not giving. it's understandable why they did not.
i do blame them and i don't understand it. if you understand it, explain it to me.
that was a ridiculous statement. i wouldn't do those things anymore. i did then but not now. i would count on God if i was ever in a similar position again.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:13 pm
by Mastermind
ochotseat is really getting on my nerves.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:51 pm
by ochotseat
bizzt wrote:
And you know they will buy those things with the Money you give them?
!
Why are they homeless to start? Because many of them are drug addicts and don't want to work for a living.
Prodigal Son wrote:
i do blame them and i don't understand it. if you understand it, explain it to me.
Hardworking people shouldn't be beholden to give so many handouts to lazy loafers.
that was a ridiculous statement.
I didn't make it.
Mastermind wrote:
I don't insult people unless they deserve it. And Jesus made fun of the pharisees. What exactly is your point?
Jesus used obscenities against the pharisees?
No, I support empires. If you're not familiar with common theologic debate terms let me know so that I may dumb my speech down to your level.
Or you can educate yourself on the Constitution and Calvanism, which both uphold democracy. We are not a theocracy, which you seem to want.
I don't visit this place often enough to remember what discussions I'm in
It seems you post daily so...
ochotseat is really getting on my nerves
And your beloved dark side ultimately destroyed you.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:08 pm
by Mastermind
ochotseat wrote:
Jesus used obscenities against the pharisees?
Did I use any "obscenities"?
Or you can educate yourself on the Constitution and Calvanism, which both uphold democracy. We are not a theocracy, which you seem to want.
OMG you still have no idea what we're talking about.
It seems you post daily so...
I don't. In fact I haven't been here in a long time.
And your beloved dark side ultimately destroyed you.
You are the one who should fear destruction small fry.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:23 am
by ochotseat
Mastermind wrote:
Did I use any "obscenities"?
Sure did.
OMG you still have no idea what we're talking about.
Sounds like you failed history.
I don't. In fact I haven't been here in a long time.
you just posted yesterday, so stop lying.
You are the one who should fear destruction small fry
The dark side has consumed you it has.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:59 am
by bizzt
ochotseat wrote:bizzt wrote:
And you know they will buy those things with the Money you give them?
!
Why are they homeless to start? Because many of them are drug addicts and don't want to work for a living.
Did Jesus Question why people were Beggars in the First Place OC? No he met their Needs.
Does it not say in Scripture
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
1Cr 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:13 am
by Deborah
ochotseat wrote:
Why are they homeless to start? Because many of them are drug addicts and don't want to work for a living.
Your forgetting the teen run aways. There are allot of reasons why people are homeless. Society lets them down. When old people end up in homes to hardly ever see those whom are suppose to love them. There is something wrong with society! We are living in a society that clearly is selfish and doesn't care. It's a I am ok, but stuff you society. This is not the society we as Christians should be patting on the head. We need to not only take care of our own, but others too.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:33 am
by Prodigal Son
hardworking people shouldn't be beholden to give so many handouts to lazy loafers.
i do wonder if you are this heartless, or if you are truly so incredibly blind.